If you have developed a strong relationship with a certain demon and know them well, and another magician commands that same demon to attack you, will the attack still be effective?
Yes, the demon will attack you if commanded to do so. That is their duty.
However, as happened to one member on this forum, the demon might just slightly slap your arm, thus fulfilling their orders, and then spill the beans on who sent them.
They can tell you that you are going to be attacked, so you can defend yourself better, they can take the guy who is against you out of your life, they can let him attack you, they can attack him to protect you, they can tell the magician that they will do the job, and then they don’t do it, but anyway they will report him that the job was done, etc. I’ve been on both sides of this thing, and I’ve learned that the outcome depends on how much they care about you and how much they care about the other guy and what is the demon’s particular agenda involving you and the other guy. My experiences come from having being in a coven that had lots of internal fights and where the demons had a strong predilection for some members.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, demons are their own people and will either agree to it or disagree to it. A magician can’t command a demon to do a darn thing. They can ask, and from there the demon can either weigh the options or choose to do so or choose not to. It depends entirely on the singular demon in question and the relationships between those involved.
All very interesting, and goes against classic chaos magick theory. I feel a lot of chaos magick circles are essentially just atheist support groups.
I would tell you from my experience … that goes according to the energy essence of the deity. There are divinities that have in their essence the characteristic of fidelity, while there are others that do not possess it and abide by the directives of the one who evokes it. There are deities that by fostering a working alliance with the occultist will defend him from temptations and hostilities emanating from others in the astral, and they would NEVER allow an induced gloom, and this gives the evocator the peace and tranquility of his presence that does not sleep! in the defensive and offensive work that is thrown against his protégé. That is why you must be careful, know well the personality and essence that characterizes the deity. In the world of experiences everyone has their projection on this subject either because they have lived or witnessed it in other lives.
But whether or not they’ll listen depends on why they’re being ordered to attack. If the demon feels that you deserve it, they won’t hesitate. But if they feel that the magician commanding them is in the wrong, then they’ll either do nothing or attack them. Or maybe they’ll take a third option and perhaps help the magician come to a better understanding of their target.
EDIT: Or, like @DarkestKnight said, they’ll probably do a slap on the wrist and then rat out who gave the order.
In my life I have had people try to send Vodoun Spirits at me. They caused just enough crap to happen that I would immediately know which spirit it was and then I would summon them, have a chat with them, then usually return them to sender after giving an offering to their liking. Works great most of the time.
So are you saying some spirits can be bought?
Wouldn’t a practitioner’s relationship with an entity supersede formalities? For example, if a Bokor had a stronger bond with whomever you petitioned, would your offering matter?
It’s possible, but remember in that pantheon specifically they were human sorcerers first and foremost, name one pantheon that does not at one point or another have human like attributes?
Something to keep in mind is that spirits don’t play favorites. It doesn’t matter if you have a better relationship. If they feel you absolutely deserve what the other magician wants, then they’ll do it.
They actually can play favorites, depends on the individual. Some have longer history with certain entities than others. Entities play favorites just as humans do. Just not always in a sense of asking them to harm someone.
This is all so interesting to me. Not quite sure I’m completely sold though. A lot of things would make so much sense if this is in fact true though.
So spirits have a moral system?
When asking if she would be my matron Goddess of the Norse Pantheon or could guide me to whomever would become my Patron/Matron, Freya gave me gnosis that paraphrased to:
I will be the closest thing you will have to such a being, child, but in truth you do not need this. No, you are not Baldur (responding to a suspicion I had at the time) giggle oh, but you are not as young as you now fear. Others are right to call you Odinson.
So I understandably have a hard time believing they do not play favorites.
I had similar with Odin, Hel, Villi, and some who are also in the Celtic Pantheon though it was through projection.
I suppose it should be noted that @Cernunnos, @Velenos and I are all speaking of entities outside of what are known as “demons”. However, many of them can trace back to godhood in Sumeria or other locales solidly categorizing them as another Pantheon of spirits under the title of demons and thus not precluding them from biases as other beings are still recorded to have.
We do not know what or how much we have lost to time until it is unearthed once more only to expand our horizons of “how much”.
I wouldn’t call them human first and foremost, there are maybe a few who were given Godhood be it title or rebirth via the head of the pantheon, Psyche for example. However, something having human attributes doesn’t mean it was originally human, as these beings predate humanity and the idea of “made in the Gods’ image” could have some truth to it. Atleast to the minor extent. However, that’s just my opinion that humans aren’t as unique in appearance as we think that many beings could of looked semi human long before we started to look completely human if that makes sense.
That is very interesting about Patrons/Matrons, very Germanic…
How do you work with the Gods? I have never worked with them outside of ‘prayer’ (Blóta and more Christian style prayer) but have gained many insights and interesting results afterwards.
I have mostly Invoked per Asbjorn Torvol’s “Heathen”, modifying as I felt necessary. I don’t take the religious route of Blots usually.