I hope this makes sense i didn’t know how to word it
If you do a search of the forum, most of us agree that no particular type of spirit is more or less good than another. Just like humans, we have good and bad in all races, and all genders. We see dogs that snap on their owners within all breeds, and so on and so forth.
We hear about angels that harass people, demons that heal rare diseases and well of course it doesn’t take much digging or reading in the grimoires to determine that sometimes the best way to kill a person is to use an angel.
Yes I wouldn’t say any “class” of spirit is all evil or good. It varies with them. And this isn’t particularly untraditional either, as we see in some traditional grimoires that certain demons are of a noble nature and so do not bring harm to the Magician as long as they are of a noble nature as well.
But I’ll say, most Angels tend to be very beneficent, and so for example would not curse you if you messed up the ritual or annoyed them somewhat. Most Celestial spirits are also very beneficent when called when they are in a good state, and even without, most will not turn on you suddenly.
There are also some, such as 7 Olympic Spirits of Arbatel, who it is reported that they do not turn on you if you do not fulfill your promise of an offering (quite a serious matter when it comes to dealing with spirits), and who do not then deny your call either.
Most deities are also very honorable and beneficent. For example, I would not imagine most of the Norse deities to cause harm that is uncalled for.
Depends what you mean by “good”. I wouldn’t say that angels are good, really… biblically speaking, they go by the “word of god”, which includes bringing death and destruction to entire cities, bringing judgement and fighting whoever god thinks they should. Imo, “god” here includes other mages sending them against you.
All spirits are a balance of yin and yang, the good/bad dichotomy is a false one that doesn’t really exist. “One man’s meat is another man’s poison” sort of thing.
What you probably want to do, is find entities that align with what you want, and this is what is “good”, for you. For this you have to know what you want first.
Kwan yin and jizo are gods of compassion,and are safe to work with completely.
aside from them are your own ancestors
I wouldn’t say angel are good. For example, I’ve worked with Goetia, Djinn, and terrestrial spirits. Some of them are pretty dark, like Belial. Some are downright sadistic and psychopaths, like Sorath.
But the freakiest experience I had was with an angel of the 42 Letter Name. At this time, I didn’t have a great grasp on my mind. I was communicating with the Angel, and thought of porn.
Let me tell you, this angel morphed into a whirlwind of eyes, teeth and swords. I literally almost pissed myself. I felt like I was about to be tossed into a meat grinder. So, when you see an angel as a humanoid with wings and a smile - they are being nice.
eh,in my experience those who dont pretend for an ideal to be asolute truth are alot more good than not.
i for example am a very calm and open minded person.i do not judge based on religion,creed,sex,or what have you
im also vegetarian and an eco-freindly communist.
i have found that whereas im layed back and compassionate,people who pretend love for love and light (which is a majority of normals) are some of the most vindictive,acrid psychotic creatures youll ever meet,and would sooner throw there own kin udner the bus than show humility
you would think, “wait,your so different from these people in general,what is different in you specifically?”
im a satanic,demon possesed chaos magician
im well aware that life is not black and white,good or evil,but 50 shades of grey within,and 100 more without
i even have a pet calico cat that i rescued,found her one day,all skin and bones,sniffing for even a scrap of food,next to the dumpster,adopted her and plumped her up,and everyday now,she lays on my chest and falls asleep
my point is,there is everything everywhere. and good in the darkest of places
Unless you’re a Wiccan, a Christian, or something else that beleive in “light vs. dark” I’m not sure this has much bearing on anything.
Two spirits I’ve worked with that are pretty different are Buer and Furcalor. One won’t associate with me when I’m wearing attire that’s meant for certain other spirits and would never be involved in my baneful magick (Buer); he’s a healer. And Furcalor is pretty much dead set on just killing anyone he feels like. You could liken this to “White” and “Black” and whatever else, but aside from my personal belief that that’s disrespectful, people who give magick colors are just looking for ways to moralize their own practice in my opinion.
Of the beings I’ve worked with Baal and Set are also quite different. Baal comes with darkness, the he seems to light a path. Set also lights a path but holy fuck was hard. While light and dark are great words to describe, making “good and bad” a part of their meaning is the part I take true issue with.
Why not just work with those that align with your interests? This question and those who seem to focused on it, again to me, seem scared to work with a being just because it’s “Bad” or not “white.” Doesn’t that tell you something about where you might need to be introspective and looking into what makes you so apprehensive?
Alright, I realize I should explain more by what I mean by “good” and “bad”. Personally I prefer to use the terms “Beneficent” and “Maleficent” respectively instead.
When I say a spirit is very beneficent, what I mean is they act in a way that most of us would desire, that is, favorably. For exampld, most of us would not want a spirit to kill people against our desire to give us a desire or what we ask for of them, or to cause us immense suffering and destroy us or what we hold dear in the process. That would quite maleficent.
So most Hebrew Angels and Gods and other known beneficent spirits are very beneficent in that way, not causing suffering and harm to the Magician and to others involved unless specifically asked to do so, and even then they will usually only do so if it is for a just reason. Most also will not curse the Magician for messing up the ritual or for not delivering on a promised offering, although they may ignore the Magician afterwards.
For example, a spirit that always lies to the Magician with the intent of causing them harm is considered very unfavorable, and so they are malificent, especially if outright causing harm in their actions as well.
Now, not all Demons are malefic as I said and not all Angels are beneficent. However, most experienced magicians here know the importance of using a protective circle when working with Demons when they are not well acquainted with them, and this is used in tradition. On the other end, in Picatrix where the invocations of the Planetary Spirits are given, no protection is used, because those spirits are very beneficent and it would not even be imagined that they would turn on the Magician or cause them harm.
Now, “Bad” does not always mean destruction, and “Good” does not always mean construction. That itself is more of a modern view, as for example justice and the persecution of criminals, while causing suffering and harm, is still considered to be a good thing and not evil.
So, working with most beneficent angels, gods, and celestial spirits is very safe for that reason.
Planetary angels and intelligences. Not t planetary intelligences, they are evil.
The Lord Sun and Lady Moon
What do you mean not Planetary Intelligences?
Planetary spirits are the one to avoid.
The planetary angels and intelligences should be okay
Oh yes calling on the Planetary Spirits without their Intelligences is not advised. However, it is not that their nature is maleficent or evil, but rather calling on a planetary spirit without its intelligence is similar to calling on a person’s spirit (that is, their energy body). The spirit or energy body blindly acts out the command as it does not have an intelligence to direct it, but conjoined with the intelligence it then acts with regard to morals and ethics.
That is made much clearer than what the Golden Dawn Book said, lol. Thank you for the clear explanation.
To me this seems like you’ve stepped back from your other post in favor of going the good/bad route. I honestly don’t see any difference in “white/black” “good/bad” and your “beneficent/maleficent” . It’s ultimately still an imposed duality that seeks to accomplish the same thing.
Do you disagree?
What do you use to define the word “demons”? If it’s “Christians call them demons” then I believe almost none of them act in Christian standards of demonic ways. If it’s a personal decision you use to define “demonic” acting spirits, are you interested in sharing your criteria?
I’m not sure what you mean by what it accomplishes. It’s simply that some things are favorable to most, and some things unfavorable. When Mars is ill dignified in astrology, this can signal things such rape, and others things that the site does not allow me to say.
Now, whether something is benefic or malefic does not mean one is wrong and the other right. It’s more about action, if I can put it like that.
What I mean by “Demons” is spirits who are traditionally considered to be demons. That is, the children of Lilith, the souls of the Nephilim, and fallen angels. But, I don’t use the term to mean that they are evil. As I said, not all “Demons” are maleficent, and not all Angels are beneficent. Hope that clears things up.
Marduk, Inanna, Zeus, Hera. Osiris, Isis. Ea, Enki, Enlil. Yahova.
I understand you’re idea better.
This is a good point. I didn’t liken these to good/bad but yes, many people believe that only good/white/etc. spirits can be “right” which I think, personally, is equally wrong.
I’m understanding that “demons” for you means entities that have always been demonic along with entities Christians have deemed as such. That makes sense, not a definition I abide by, but I understand better.
My definition, as I’ve asked for yours, is a bit different. Anything considered a demon before colonialism destroyed pagan. So entities like Pazuzu and Supay for instance.