Yeah, that seems to be a problem with discussions like this. What does the individual mean by “light” and “dark”? And do individuals sense elemental energy similarly enough to really categorize spirits?
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Yeah elemental energies can manifest slightly different like light can manifest as white, yellow, gold, etc.
When I soul dive a person for such my method of figuring out the elements is comparing it to my own or asking their soul landscape to manifest their elemental energies in the environment and often it’ll come as rain, fire, a storm, windy, earthquakes, or for the more complex energies like light, darkness or even void etc it’ll be a bit more.
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I am going to have to get some more experience with soul diving.
As far as spirits go, I mainly just observe sensations as I interact with them (such as temperature, intensity, etc). As far as people goes, when they talk to me about not being sure what “their element” is in person, I usually observe what they are interested on my coffee table (as I have things representing each), the lighting of the seat they are pulled to sit in and their body language after changing the subject. A little easier if I do not feel like scanning.
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Yeah. But there is a major difference there though. YHWH (or else “the Christian god”) does everything because “he loves us”. He never does anything wrong. “His way is perfect, the word of the Lord proves true, he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him”. He’s nothing like humans because his existence is separate.
Greeks, same as other native deities, are closer to human kind. They do mistakes, they have passions, they don’t do everything our of “love”.
As I’ve noted on my journal, with the native religions a human understands the divinity through the intellect that connects him to it. That doesn’t apply on apocalyptic religions such as Christianity and their god, since you’re not even suppose to understand the divinity.
That pretty much sums it up. Greeks might be assholes like humans are. But YHWH is extremely twisted and has no excuse.
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Not sure I agree with that. Turning humans into monsters out of petty jealousy, or destroying them because they broke some rule, is twisted and cruel, regardless of the religion that is built around the deity in question.
Neither does the Christian god. The “he loves us part” is a whitewash by the followers, in the same vein of neo-pagans ignoring the faults of the Greek, Roman, and Norse deities.
Well, that is supposedly the job of the Church, not ordinary people lol However, it is the same deal with the priests of any religion, including the Greeks. They had priests, priestesses, and oracles, whose job it was to interpret signs and messages from the gods for the rest.
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It is. As humans are.
I respectfully disagree. We’re not talking about UPG here, we’re talking about facts written in their holy books. If as magicians you/we/they have no problem believing and following a book or grimoire written centuries ago (and not only) and accepting it as truth, how exactly we dismiss the Bible? So one was written by followers but the other from someone who held all the gnosis? One is true and the other is a lie? Nah. That’s not how it works.
That’s not exactly how it worked, as I’ve said before majority of priests and priestess were elected for a certain amount of time to work in said temples. Their job wasn’t to interpret the messages of the gods but to take care of the temple. Only a handful of people were priests for life. Oracles, yes, their job was to interpret the message of the gods. From all the temples spread in Greece, again only a handful did that job. The temple of Delphi was one of them.
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The biggest difference between the Bible and a grimoire, though, is that the Bible is composed of different books, written by different people, all smooshed together, so you don’t really get the full story, what you get are the bits that a handful of other people picked out to serve their own ends centuries after the books were actually written. That’s why it is so heavy with contradictions. Hell, even today, its followers pick and choose the pieces of those bits they want to follow, so you can’t really compare it to a girmoire, which tends to be internally consistent within its own theory of workings.
If you took pieces of Kendall’s book on Necromancy, added a few chapters of Koetting’s Evoking Eternity, plus a dash of Damon Brand’s Archangel’s of Magick, and finished it off with a chapter from Asenath Mason’s Rituals of Pleasure, how effective do you think it would be as a grimoire? Chances are, not very, as those authors and books all have completely different theories, and models of working to them.
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In my opinion, the whole dark light thing is a red herring a meaningless distraction used for political ends. “Demons” can very much be “of the light”. They can also be “dark”.
The best thing to do, imo, is take a step back and understand what you’re asking first. What does “of the light” mean? Why should “light” be “better” than “dark” - it isn’t, in my opinion.
“Demons” is a derogatory term developed by JCI religions to label entities they didn’t want their sheep to talk to. If you’re not a sheep, there’s no reason to use this word, imo.
From personal experience, since I believe I’m an incarnate “demon”, and yet I am “of the light”. I’m also a human “angel”. Higher beings are not confined to the lenses used by limited rligiosly-influenced humans with agendas and a poor grasp of history, they can act in ways that we will judge as both bad and good.
Yes, this is completely possible, that your “demon” partner is beneficial and loving, having very high vibrations and working for your highest good, for both of you. This is what being “of the light” means in my book. It’s probably completely capable of being baneful to someone that hurts you so that they’d see it as a “demon”, so, it’s not limited to our silly labels.
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Interesting, I said exactly the same as you were typing this answer. That’s rather funny actually, because in a religion you don’t get to pick what bits and pieces serve you better and dismiss the rest. It’s what religion is.
I suppose what makes the Bible unreliable to you is just the fact that was written from different people. Yet, as we’ve seen in the grimoirs, one magician always copies a part of at least one other magician’s work. Some copy even more than just one and add some of their own personal touch to it. Some call it “remake”.
And going even further back, magical rituals and incantations always copied parts and pieces from one another. Even different civilizations copied one another. What evidence do we have that the texts in the “Book of the dead” were written from the same person? And I’m not talking about Lepsius who translated it. I’m talking about the real deal.
What about the Greek Magical Papyri? Was that written by one person? And in conclusion, is the number of people who wrote a certain book or papyrus a factor for its reliability? Are we gonna cancel the ancient practices because we have no clue if it was written by one person alone or if it was copied by other rituals and civilisations?
We can’t, as practitioners, dismiss the Bible or the Quran or any other holy book as unreliable because it doesn’t serve us the way we like or because we don’t like what was written in it. Same as I can’t dismiss the cruel things the Greek gods did because It doesn’t serve me or I don’t like it.
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Thank you for the great conversation, but I just realised we have gone completely off the topic of this thread 
Poor OP is probably shaking his head wondering what we’re going on about 
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Well thank you too, it was interesting!
Sorry OP
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i guess people in general, used to be much tougher.
The people of the past would disown us all for our pussy-ness, political-"correct"nesss and just this inability to take some heat or “bad” jokes. ~~Which is reflected in the kind of stories they liked.
i recently listened to japanese stories, that were absurd, hillarious and violent.
Like… there was this one guy, who went to the beach, and lured the misc fish, salmon and whales up his ass, and then carried them home. Some he ate, most he sold and became rich -his lesser brother, who seemingly always seems to leave the house by saying “i already knew thaT” or “i was about to do that myself” and pissign on the porch (im not making this up) after he rejected advise (everytime)
~Anyway, in that particular story he went to the same beach, but only caught insects, spiders and catterpillars etc, with his ass. when he went home, they bit and stung him to death. (°_° ’ )
ANOTHER EXAMPLE
One time, the smart one took his literal fucking dick, and strechted it across a town. The people were like “look! it is a pole send by the gods! lets dry our finest garments on it” the dude waited until it was all set, then retracted his dick and sold all the fine clothes, becoming rich. ~~~ When he told this to his lesser brother, he reacted like a douche (again) pissed unto the porch (again) and went out to try it himself.
Now, to his misfortune, he didnt count in people actually LEARNING from that bullshit trick his brother pulled off. ~THe people assumed a thief had stolen the divine pole last time, so they sawed off the “pole” … leaving the douche, poor and with only half a penis.
… (im not making this up)
If you think, those stories are weird, iimagine being a westener in the 1800s, translating this into english for the first time.
Anyway, i hope you get my point. (IF i have one)
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Huh, I’ve never tried that… That might be useful next time I scan…
Wow cool a drider.