Archetypes or Contact? Reflections on Belial and Orobas

New Magician Help & Introductions
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Hello everyone,
I’m new to the forum. I believe I can find answers to my questions here. Thank you all in advance.

While meditating with Tarot cards, when it came time for the Death card, I had a dream related to Belial. In the dream, a guide, Belial, and I were in my home. The guide spoke of Belial with praise, respect, and gratitude. He even said that Belial had saved him from a very difficult process.

At that point, I said in the dream: “If he is so helpful, then I would like to work with him as well.” After this sentence, Belial turned his face toward me, approached me, and extended his hand, asking for respect and obedience. However, I refused him, because I had never had such an experience before and I could not fully comprehend what I was getting into.

After that, my interest in the Ars Goetia book and the demons within it suddenly increased. Before this, I did not even know the name of the book. (If you ask how I learned about it: the other name of the Death card is Nun, and Nun is also another name of Valac. Through this connection, I researched the book.)

Afterwards, I began researching all the demons. Among them, only Orobas stood out as one I could potentially work with. More precisely, I thought to myself: “If I were to work with anyone, it would be Orobas.”

Some time later, in another part of a dream, I saw myself trying to draw Orobas’s seal using white sand. Honestly, although these experiences were impressive for me, I wanted to interpret them purely as archetypes. However, in the following days, Orobas’s hymn kept repeating in my mind. I feel an urge to sing it, but because of my willpower, I only hum it quietly. How I should interpret this process is the main focus of my curiosity.

In addition to all this, my other questions are:
Does working with demons negatively affect my path of spiritual evolution?
Can it help me reach higher levels of consciousness?

I have also read that having a connection with the HGA (Holy Guardian Angel) makes working with demons safer. Honestly, my mind is very confused. Could you help me interpret this process?

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All this depends on your own personal worldview, the exact same situation would be interpreted differently by different people just based on your background and belief system.

There’s a point where a lot of people say it doesn’t matter if the activities to work with them and the results are the same. You choose how you want to understand things and it’s still all going to work.

I think it’s important to note here, that worldviews, or belief systems, are not Truth™, they are models we use to provide a structured and coherent understanding that allow us to work with the underlying energies of the universe. Noe of them actually are the universe, they just give you a way to deal with it. This is why trying to find the 'best" model or what is truth is a waste of time, the model you pick must work for you, and consistently get you results, and if it does not, then update it until it does.

What process? You mean the urge to sing enns or hymns etc.? I think only you can answer this one, because it’s deeply psychological. From my perspective, there’s two options on why you want to sing:

  1. You are attracted to the concept of this entity and so is your subconscious, so you are musing on the idea and having fun with it
  2. Your system is being influenced by external factors, such as an entity or thoughform to insert the hymn into your head.

For the former, all well and good, for that latter, banish and cleanse, and set boundaries wit wards that may not be crossed - this is a basic of spiritual hygiene and you should have ward sup already - if so fix them because they’re not working properly.

I personally don’t feel it’s appropriate for entities of any kind to directly influence your energy without express and conscious permission, I see that as the activity of lesser entities and parasites. There’s zero expectation it’s Orobas but if so, he’s being boundary-pushing so work it out with him where your lines are. But you don’t know yet, so the safe thing to do is banish and bring that up in ritual conversation.

I don’t see why - but again, that’s my worldview. I don’t see working with entities inherently good or bad based on some random religion’s arbitrary or religio-political label on said entity. I’m not religious, so why would I? I don’t even use the word demon seriously unless I’m conforming o someone else’s labels for ease of communication.

So I see the term “demon” as a human-created social construct, and a rather vague and all-encompassing one at that, lacking much in the way of nuance. One man’s “demon” is another man’s god, ET, astral wildlife, or aspect of his own psyche from archetype to addiction - context and personal worldview change everything.

Can what help? Any work using your subconscious will improve communication with your subconscious for getting more information from entities. This doesn’t require higher states of consciousness, so I’d say no. Practice meditation designed to reach higher states if that’s what you want - gotta use the right tool for the right job.

I don’t agree, I think knowing yourself so you maintain your sovereignty is what keeps you safe.
But I don’t use the concept of a HGA in my worldview anyway.

My own worldview is that there is a higher being incarnate as me and we are the same thing. There are lots of “me”'s scattered through space and time - thousands - and I can talk to them if I can find them (past life regressions do this), but the whole being that is all of us collected isn’t really very verbal and is difficult to contact, for me - part of the point of incarnation is to experience phsyical skills like using language, so I stand to reasons imo that the collective doesn’t know this level of granular detail - that’s what you are for.

I.e. - you ARE a higher being already, remember that and you protect yourself.

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This? AMAZING.

:100: TRUE

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