Bill Duvendack puts up some nice research on the subject but I don’t remember which YouTube it was in 
1 Like
We must be reading some very different literature… Can u cite a source for that?
But like, all your arguments are off-topic… If you’re looking to argue, let’s take it to pm maybe?
I’d have to go over the interviews but it’s also here as well 
Would have to search as well; it’s hard to remember every discussion on this site that were very useful and informative.
Umm, no its not and discussion isn’t argument.
The idea of the Infernal and the Celestial being polar opposites is part of the discussion. Most Draconian seem to be considered Infernal but I feel there are Celestial examples as well, hence the right and left wings of the dragon.
2 Likes
@anon75934406
Fastos And Meton reveal secret Tongues of Demonology/Angelology
There are many magicians that have been having experiences that prove literary sources wrong. If an angel tells you he doesn’t work for any god found in literature, would you ask him to cite you a source or would you believe him?
Also look into Enochian magic. Michael created a whole system of spiritual ascent that has nothing to do with any JCI deity.
6 Likes
The definition of “argument” I’m using doesn’t necessarily imply something bad. You were asserting points contrary to mine (Which is per definition an argument, but again, not with negative attitude per se) and I was offering counter-points. That’s literally an argument… Discussion? Argument? Po-tay-to, po-tah-to 
My contribution to the discussion was that I feel no need to work with angels because demons can do everything the angels can (and arguably more)…
1 Like
Why is everyone nit-picking the thing that wasn’t even my point???
To make it abundantly clear, one last time, my point is: demons do it all, therefore I feel no need to work with angels/white light/sefiroth/whateverthefuck
First of all, don’t be ridiculous, entities will lie through their teeth to your face if they feel they have reason to
Secondly, I don’t talk to angels for personal reasons
Furthermore, are you implying Alita is an angel??? 
1 Like
Nothing wrong with that.
Atm I only work with Infernal and Celtics Spirits. The vibration of Celestials is so different that it will take a little practice if I want to work with any of them.
Not everyone sees balance as light and dark. Nothing wrong with that.
Lol okay that’s just stupid. 
@veneficus is talking about what people have said on this forum. There are many that speak directly to Angels and Angels have told them Christian Dogma is BS.
That’s all.
veneficus literally asked me if i would ask angels to cite sources if they told me something contrary to my beliefs, which was immediately after i asked u to cite sources supporting yours…
i saw a parallel between what you and he said and i tried to lighten the mood that yall keep trying to shit on, but fuck me, im just an idiot right?
later, geniuses
For the record @calix_osseus, I agree that we can rely solely on the infernal. I was only responding to what you said about the relationship between the angels and the gods of religion. Wasn’t trying to make you feel ganged up on. 
3 Likes
I’m too tired to try to figure out how an academic conversation became someone being an idiot.
I find this path (Draconian) to really be a roller coaster like some others have said here lol.
I never really thought about this, well in that way. It really does fit.
2 Likes
I have a couple of thoughts, mainly, I think that’s all fine, personal taste is important.
- The Darkness with a capital D you mention as limitless? That’s not the dark - yin that is merely the dualistic opposite of light - yang. Limitless means that as the Tao, which is the void, it is limitless potential, the primordial chaos from which all things are possible. Dark is created from the void as is light - and the rest.
Therefore, by professing to work only with the “dark”, you seem t be saying you’re limiting yourself to one side of duality,
However, you definition of the dark is not the dark, you say you’re working with the Tao, Abyss, Void. ,… But then I don’t understand what your problem is with working with light/yang energy.
- When you say "demons do it all, therefore I feel no need to work with angels", I think you don’t realise, angels are demons are exactly the same thing.
You can work with Lucifer Morningstar the angel as well as Lucifer the demon - the difference is the intent you bring to the table, not them. They don’t care, you’re judging based on human-based projections of politics which comes 2nd hand from questionable sources, so it’s not what you think. They’ll work with you any way you like, however. Daemons aren’t as petty as humans.
So in either case, whether you’re working from the void or working with daemons only mentioned as politically opposing some minor desert troll for some terribly romantic reasoning that makes sense to you, you’re not working “only with the dark”. So you’re covered.
15 Likes
I guess this is the issue I’m having. I keep equating the Dark with the void AND the darkness as in yin. I keep seeing darkness as “truer” or more intimately connected to the void because I see the void as Darkness with a capital D and limitless, and darkness as yin being a manifestation of this void within creation. Light to me just being the goal desired by the system of creation in which darkness is vilified. Thus, the yin and yang, or the balance of light and dark doesn’t fit me. I dunno. Maybe this will change in the future, or I’ll have a more concrete way of conceptualizing what I am on the path to understanding for myself.
2 Likes
New topic created for this so it doesn’t accidentally derail The Draconian Path and Witchcraft. 
5 Likes
Tricky topic, this. Time isn’t linear for spirits respective to our plane of existence. That makes piecing together a “history” a bitch. That’s problem one. Problem two is, spirits, including our little cotton pickin souls, have, by the accounts of holy men the world over in every known age, progress/have progressed/will progress/beensofarasdecidedtodowhatbelookmorelikeprogress (asynchronous time’s a bitch) through anywhere between seven and nine planes of existence, or “worlds.”
Spirits tend to be very reticent on the nature of this progression, and even when they’re not their commentaries don’t make a hell of a lot of sense to the mortal minds on our plane when they try and communicate particulars.
Best I can figure from piecing shit like this together over the course of ten years’ of hard occult study and 24 years of living deeply inundated in Divine Mystery is this:
-Our current plane of existence is either the fourth or fifth, more likely fourth, of seven worlds, or otherwise the fourth, fifth, or sixth of nine worlds.
-The Fall the and War on Heaven from judeo-christianic tradition are distorted relatings of a fight between world below and world above entities that occurred a world or two previous to our own. These fights are a common feature of each world, and the particular origin of this one, conceived of as a rebellion of somewhere between a third and half of the Host of the Words Above, is to the best of my understanding accurate.
2 Likes
thx but my very first comment was relevant to the Draconian Path topic, unless ive completely lost my marbles
i feel like angels are celestial aspects of spirits
1 Like
Refreshing
I like it
2 Likes