A question about the creation of souls


Ok so this has been on my mind for a few days. It was after reading the thread about a guy being a potential nephilim. After that I started to read about Gods having astro babies.

Then something weird happened to me over the last week. I got this weird, this sensation and thoughts in my mind. It felt like a message from Goddess Bast (who brought me into magick after a long process - more on that later. I felt that she told me that I was one of her descendants many thousands of years ago.

So this gets me thinking. Franz Bardon said that Human souls are made in the image of the Tetragrammaton i.e “The Image of God”. Most of us have the star of David imprinted onto our souls.

Now supposedly we all descend spiritually from Adam and Eve as the first Human souls. Yet herein lies a problem. Despite the universal message of the Catholic Church, the original story of Adam and Eve is that only the line of Seth - which obviously would be the Jewish group - retains a lineage to Adam and Eve. Not to the rest of mankind, supposedly since Cain died out and so did Abel.

Which leads me to several fundamental questions…

  1. Are all Human souls related to Adam and Eve?

  2. Did some other Gods create different soul groups?

And the third most important question…

  1. If all Humans do descend indeed from Adam ans Eve…could it have been possible spiritualliy speaking that as we advance through the process or reincarnation - other Gods added their DNA into our souls? It sounds crazy but think physically how many different ancestors we all have and it all goes back to Luka…the source…

So it is entirely possible we could have I dunno been an astral baby at one point…or maybe essences got mixed…

Or maybe I am going mad…

Anyway thanks for reading!

Well this is just my opinion, and I have a different worldview, so it’s natural that I have different answers than say, a Christian that believes the origin story of Adam and Eve.

But bear in mind, as all cultures have their own origin stories that are completely different, so like me, people from those cultures will have different answers.

There is plenty of room for this in my philosophy. I think many, if not all, humans are higher bering incarnate into human bodies. Where those higher beings come from is a question. I don’t think they all existed en masse at that start of creation. So some are made by others afterwards.

As we know, humans can create new spirits, we call them servitors and they can become spirited and independent, because spirit is in everything. In the same way, higher beings can make other spirits too, as that’s why we can do it. Therefore, assuming Bast is a sovereign higher being too, there’s no reason she could not make legions, including one of those people being you.

So you can see why I don’t personally believe this. As I just described above, spiritually we descend from other higher beings. Animal reproduction to create more vessels is a different matter.


Depends what you mean by “god”. For me there’s a couple of definition:

  1. The source or The All, the creative potential that exists out of time and space and creates everything, also called the Tao, and what Jesus called The Father. (This NOT the el entity called yhwh, or of the other elohim: there were many, as explained in the bible when yhwh started demaning the others should be shunned)
  2. Powerful entities that humans call gods.

I think both can create new spirits

No, because souls don’t have DNA.

But yes multiple spirits can work together to create entities. We example this as humans when we create sentient egregores.

Yes. Completely possible.

For myself, I currently believe I was created by a being involved with the creation of the Earth, and was basically a thoughtform designed to work with millions of other thoughtforms to “hold it in place until it could hold itself”, which we did by flowing through it and “singing”. I believe my creator was Azazel. I’ve evolved a lot since then, I “grew up” in the legions and since then have been incarnating on various planets on my way to ascension.

So that’s my view right now, some entities do create many spirits and they do go through an education process.


Hi Mulberry,

Thank you for your insightful answer. It has given me food for thought as they would say.

If you don’t mind me asking but what is your take on the Adam and Eve story? Do you think there is some truth to it? I notice some scepticism in your words and I would enjoy to read your thoughts on the matter.

I like your philosophy although I would like to add an idea into the mix. John Michael Greer over on Ecosophia spoke about all souls as having being created from the source…and they ended up having to go through various incarnations such as being a living bacteria, then moving onto being a wolf, etc, etc before becoming Human.

You can tell that with some people out there who look like they have just left cowhood and are beginning the Human journey. Yet there are others who you can tell have rather advanced origins. Perhaps from other worlds.

I did once have a past life dream of being…a panther in South America many years ago. It was amazing to feel the pressure on my paws as I galloped through the jungle. It was an experience I’ll always treasure.

Ah now this is interesting. So if Humans can actually create servitors, it is within the realms of possibility other souls were created by Higher Beings? You know this fits in with Dion Fortune and the Cosmic Doctrine.

I read Greers analysis on it and he did say that there are beings called “Lords of the Swarm” and they do create other souls and guide them…like a swarm.

Apprently the swarm also helps to create planete and what have you.

Per chance have you read the Cosmic Doctrine?

Yes I have heard about this source. Basically the spiritual lucas so to say.

If you dont mind me asking but what is your opinion of YHWH? I read in Bardon’s work that it is the name of Yod-He-Vau-Ne which is itself a name that is holy and how we are designed. Also related to the God of Israel…

It seems Bardon did follow the traditional Christian mindset on the matter of course but I would be interested to listen to an alternative explanation as it seems there are those on here who have different opinions to Bardon’s work.

That said, maybe there is some connection with the Jewish soul group. When we read the Bible, it does state that as a group they were “chosen” - perhaps one diety created that specific soul group?

Its just a theory and a touch controversial - I hope Im not breaking any rules here but it does make me wonder if different peoples/nations/groups were created by different Higher Entities as you pointed out and not all were related to Israel as the misconception is…

Just a thought.

Yes! I can see this happening. It is interesting that deities do enjoy having astral babies. From what I have read Bast keeps wanting more.

I do have a theory about Bast but she is traditionally known as a fertility Goddess. When people used to pray to her and give her offerings, usually she would bestow children upon them - which to my mind would be astral babies of hers that were meant to be incarnated.

Probably the same for other deities too since most of them do seem to specialise in fertility…

If you dont mind me asking but you did mention you actually incarnated on other planets - do you mean in far away galaxies or on other planets in our solar system? I did read Greer on this and as he did point out in the cosmic doctrine - the swarms originally populated other planets in our system before life became void on them and eventually made their way to Earth…

Also yes as you describe being in the Legion - that itself would be classed as a swarm by Fortunes work.

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I believe that humans are all descended from two people: the evidence doesn’t support it, e.g., the gene pool would be smaller, as the available genes are more than two people can have. However I don’t think there’s a missing link that can be found to prove we evolved smoothly from apes, the gap is too big for the existing finds, and decades of search have come up nothing to fill the smallest wedge in that gap.

Then, we know that humans have a ridiculous number of genetic defects (about 4k) that many animal species don’t have in such numbers.

As that last is less a signal of the intelligent design of a perfect Source, than engineering by imperfect “gods”, I’m currently trying on the ancient aliens theory for size, or at least parts of it. I’m not a fan of Sitchin exactly, I think he had a lot of good UPG he pushed a bit too far, but the evidence does back up some of his ideas.

Namely, as described in the Sumerian tablets, and later mythologised as the story of the Watcher angels, that humans were created from a combination of alien (angel aka god) and ape DNA. The early experiments yielded bad results, monsters (the Nephilim) were created, the women died in childbirth trying to carry these giants, but over time the men of great renown were created that became the progenitors of the human race we know now.

For further research, an author who discusses the evidence for this and adds possible theories, is Freddy Silva.

I think some do, yes, but as I explained we already know from personal experience right on this forum that evolved beings can create already capable spirits, that are sentient and sovereign.
So I think his view is fine and I don’t disagree, but it sounds… incomplete, and implies a predictability and conformity that doesn’t exist: the universe is more interesting than this.:slight_smile:

Also, it’s very Earth centric, there’s no reason, also as I described, that a spirit must evolved through all physical types of beings. There are astral analogs to all these things, and you can do that as well to get the necessary experience, imo.

It’s can’t be dismissed that you might have had what’s called “bleed through” where you recall past life memories that have otherwise been wiped. It cold also be a case of clairvoyance. But I would go with your guy feeling on which one it is :slight_smile: I’ve experienced being a herd of deer, during past life regression meditations, which is very weird as you as a higher spirit sees out of all eyes at once while the animal vessels take care of business. It seems one deer may somehow be too small for bigger spirits.

Yes exactly. I have a couple of Dion Fortunes book I confess I never got around to reading :sweat_smile: Sounds like I should!

Why not? Doesn’t sound so different from the Goetia frequently having many legions each and being called Lords and Princes and Kings. It cold be he sees the same idea and just found different language for it.

Fascinating. Now, that is the first time I have had any kind of verification on my experience planet building under Azazel. Than you for sharing that! :thinking: :smiley:

I think he existed as one of the aliens and was a bad egg. The bible records Jesus talking to him in person and they didn’t get on, and I believe Jesus was a title of an ascended human, and I trust his judgement there. Yhwh was neither ascended nor human, and was a cold hearted narcissist.

It’s not the act of an enlightened, reasonable person to demand humans worship you at the expense of your other, very similar compatriots, take away human’s power to ascend, and ther sovreignity, and give no reason why they should, other than fear based threats. Actions speak louder than words and yhwh was pretty evil, the original devil. A rogue annunaki that won via might is right.

I think that sounds like a reasonable conjecture. There is some evidence for different race interactions, such as is seen in the work of Laird Scranton studying the Dogon tribe in Africa, which has stories of teachers from Siriusad whos tribal art depicts concepts that map exactly to correct modern scientific concepts. The Anunaki may be from Orion (e.g. Betelgeuse). Some Native American tribes talk freely of interacting with the Star Brothers.

All this is freely available knowlegde it’s just not taught in schools, and people tend to think, if it’s not taught formally it can’t be true, which doesn’t really make sense imo but it’s a thing we are taught.

Same galaxy, Sirus was one. Another was not on a planet, I took a biosuit of a non ascending technological race and only remember being on ships, as a scientists. I had developed an intense curiosity I suppose and that was a good way to indulge that. That race is almost immortal as they just change bosuits rather than doing the reproduction thing. But you can’t ascend in that form,same as transhumanisn here, it’s an attempt to get an easier, tech based ascension, but it’s kind of fake. I’m here as human to work on the real deal. :slight_smile:

Nah, not too many voids, there’s life on thousands of planets all over just this galaxy, and more in the billions of galaxies more. As above so below is not just a catchphrase in more ways than one. They also have civilisations are varying levels of development, and wars and alliances. Mars got fucked up but there’s still indigenous life. E.A. Koetting has been communicating with them, but I’m not sure those livestreams made it to the new channel. The remote viewers report that the martians are very devolved due to the state of the planet.

I think incarnate life is a different thing than the ascended life, which is non physical, and that further there are multiple levels of ascension. Some of what we call deities are at higher levels of ascension, some are ascended masters (humans at the next level) some are more psychically skilled incarnates, some are in dense astrall incarnations not phsyical (like the Djinn/Fae)… probably more permutations I don’t have enough awareness to articulate. :slight_smile:


I concur with this idea. I know that several scientists recently postulated Humanity did descend from two prehistoric Humans - the evolutionary Adam and Eve. But it was shot down by other scientists who claim it was many.

Their reasoning? Because if it was potentially true, that would sort of play into the Bible’s hands and any link to the traditional creation narrative must not be allowed. Pure fanaticism really but that is what the scientists have become - the new Catholic Church. Its either their dogma or nothing at all. They do not wish to learn any new truths but still with what they “believe” in.

As for the first two Humans, you know it was the Urantia book that postulated the idea that two prehistoric Humans evolved from the ape like ancestors. Anton and Fonda IIRC. Apparently their ape parents could not understand them and they ran off to escape and found their own tribe.

It could be related to what you are discussing. However I am a huge sceptic on the Urantia book as I think it is - to put it bluntly - full of crap. I never got anything remotely spiritual from it and found it quite boring. But maybe it does have a few nuggets of wisdom…

Yes this is a question that has gotten to me too. Why can we create a perfect robot and yet intelligent beings higher then us could not create a perfect Human?

The only explanation I can give is they were scientists fascinated in life and wanted to play “God” as it were. Would Humans not do the same if we found a primitive race with similar genetic constructs to our own? I think we would out of pure fascination.

Another theory though to consider is “The Gods” did not want perfect Humans in order to supplant them in power. A weakened Humanity under their control is far more beneficial…

Basically prevent the rise of the terminators so to say…

This fits in with the story of Typhon actually. However I always felt Typhon was not created by the Gods but more of an alien entity entirely. Something far different.

As for the Nephilim - what do you envisioned they looked like. I have heard they were giants but did they even look Human or were they something else entirely?

Interested to listen to what you have found out.

Ok this is an interesting take on things. So what you are saying is that Human souls can indeed evolve from the earliest of bacteria spiritually to a full developed Human soul and yet some Human souls have had a head start in their development by other beings?

This makes sense in some regards. If you go back to the ancient era, the vast majority of people were behaving like cavemen where as you had a small, enlightened minority that helped to guide them on the right path of development. Ascended masters, people of special talent. I suspect Jesus fell into this camp as well. Zoroaster too.

I do recall even Rudolf Steiner discussing that advanced beings incarnated on the Earth to guide humanity in a certain direction. Lucifer was supposedly incarnate as the Yellow Emperor in China who brought knowledge, although Steiner would claim it to be evil and not part of the Christ consciousness.

I suppose I can see his point. It is like Eve and the forbidden fruit. You can give Humanity gifts but they end up screwing it up and turning it into some form of evil before finally using it for good purposes. The industrial revolution fits this paradigm perfectly. Humanity struggled with it at first - filthy cities, mass diseases caused by waste in the water, children losing their hands in machinery, people losing their jobs, etc. The lists was endless.

Yet when they Christ consciousness started to bear, industrialisation became a good thing in the long run, leading to better education, healthier people, longer lifespans, more food, the beginning of social reforms, etc.

Sorry for going off track but I thought I would poibt it out.

Dion Fortune is very confusing. JMG’s read through of it over on Ecosophia helps understand the Cosmic Doctrine better but even that is a heavy read that one needs to read slowly with a cup of coffee and digest. Don’t worry, take your time with that one. :grin:

Oh it does sound the same. It sort of makes sense that each head would create its own swarm of souls to follow it. I presume YHWH was no different in this matter.

No problem. I am glad I was able to share a nugget of wisdom. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Mulberry, post:4, topic:172760”]
It’s not the act of an enlightened, reasonable person to demand humans worship you at the expense of your other, very similar compatriots, take away human’s power to ascend, and ther sovreignity, and give no reason why they should, other than fear based threats. Actions speak louder than words and yhwh was pretty evil, the original devil. A rogue annunaki that won via might is right [/quote]

In a sense he reminds me of Stalin in that regards. The older generation over here worship Stalin as a mythical human being that created great prosperity. To them its like the world was shit until Stalin came along. Healthcare was bad, no one could read, everyone was hungry.

After Stalin, people had plenty of food, they had housing, healthcare was good, infant mortality was down and the population could read and write. As the famous joke here goes, “before Stalin we had plough. After Stalin we had nuclear bomb.”

Yet the great cost in Human lives it took to create that prosperity was staggering.

In a sense the OT reminds me of this. YHWH created prosperity, ended sacrifice, established the Mosaic code that stated the penalties for murdering, stealing, etc. Yet it did come at a cost to the other tribes that were slaughtered.

So it is a good question - was the God of Israel having to be a strict kindergarten teacher because people were too barbaric back then to understand otherwise? Or was it too brutal? Its a big question mark.

Sirius? That is supposedly where the cat race is from am I correct? Or am I thinking of something else? I am not sure. Still it is interesting you mention this as I always felt “God” Himself once told me that “He loves to create new races and beings im His Image”. If you explore the galaxy, the vast majority of the alien races look very similar to us - Humanoid in appearance. Similar to StarTrek actually and the shared alien common ancestor foe all the various species - hence why they looked Humanoid. :slight_smile:

As for me - I only have incarnated on Earth I am afraid and not any other planets…

Christians fuck up the whole “image of God” thing.

It’s basically an as above so below statement.

That is, you are a reflection of the divine, and corporeally speaking, a reflection of the qabbalistic principles of the tetragrammaton. An amalgation, or composite of various elements. (+ Spirit)

If you cast aside all the silly and goofy conceptualizations of a “sky daddy” or old man, etc blah, blah, blah, you’ll see that practically speaking, what’s being alluded to (minus the bullshit) as the monistic God should be something more akin to Para Brahman in Hinduism.

The whole of reality is “the image of god [divinity]” (not just bipedal humans).

Whatever you’re looking at is but a tiny fractal or snapshot of that greater thing/mystery. Whether it be a human, animal, tree, mountain, etc.

@Mulberry This is interesting.
So by technological race, do you mean a species that turned themselves into robots?

If there is life on Mars or anywhere in this solar system, how has none of it been discovered yet?
Is it all on a different plane?

The idea of spirits designing and building physical planets in this plane/realm sounds awesome.
I wonder how they would do that.

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No, they’re biological vessels. created and tech transfers the consciousness. I don’t know how. I feel like they last for a really long time, up to thousands of years, and they don’t need food, which helps as toxins from food are a source of damage. My memory is in flashes and some info comes with these but not that much. I just call it all “UPG”, so the usual pinches of salt are helpful.

I think t has, but you’ve seen the state of the disclosure thing, knowledge is power, why give it away for free?. :woman_shrugging:

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Yes I think I saw it in a bookstore once, and it didn’t speak to me on flipping through it so I didn’t look at it again after that. Sounds a bit fantasy oriented really.

Lol! I hadn’t thought of it that way. We’d make very good Terminators at our level of survival based consciousness I’m sure. There’d be no one left! :smiley:

Oh cool, I’ll have to look that one up. Another thread to pull… :slight_smile:

I think they were mostly large people, 12 feet tall ish, red headed mostly, and it sounds like they were very aggressive. It turns out they’re one of those things where the Institutions turn up, spirit away the bones and shush the reporting. But you can still see old newspaper articles where they print the finds. There’s a hundred or so around the world, all independently similar. It’s not PV to talk about them and is relegated to fringe science, but I think most are real at this point.

I guess being made by a human, and having all the training imparted, would give you a head start.

I hold a view I learned from people working with plant and Nature fae, that many species don’t have a one on one body to spirit incarnation. So you can have one spirit supply the ‘higher self’ if you like, for an entire herd, or rose variety, or specific insect. There’s magick that relies on this by talking to the overarching entity of the species rather than the individuals.

In this view, no one incarnates as “a bug”, as the bugs are too small, and come to think of it, the job is kind of taken. I think they are created more like elementals in the astral, and they do a bunch of stuff etherically before they’re complex enough to handle being physically incarnate.

I think that symbology may be misunderstood. Robert Sephyr holds the theory that the fruit represents kundalini. There’s a whole esoteric school of thought about how the fruit was viewed as negative, not for humanity but for the creators of humanity, the annunaki: because if you want to keep slaves the last thing you want is them realising they’re slaves and then judging (knowledge of good and evil seems to mean merely learning judgement) that it’s ‘bad’ and feeing themselves.

I take this to mean some of it is LHP. The yellow emporer used sex magick to feed off the energy of his concubines forlongevity purposes. However some info is only about raising spirit, I don’t think it’s black and white. I don’t think Lucifer was the Yellow Emperor. I also don’t subscribe to the theory that Ahriman (the anti Christ) will incarnate in these times now.

On reflection, as I have been “trying on for size” the Ahriman/Lucifer view for a few months now… I actually think “Ahrimanic” and “Luciferic” are the wrong names for the forces Steiner was trying to describe, which are extreme control vs extreme anarchic freedom.

With the rise of study of older cultural entities, this create confusion today with the entities we’re aware of from history (Ahriman doesn’t want tocontrol humans he wants manifestation itself obliterated and all returned to Source, he’s basically the personification of entropy), and this symbolic association, I think they’re not the same thing.

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@Mulberry Ah I see.
I never heard of this disclosure thing.
The aliens transferring their consciousness into biological bodies is pretty cool.

I wonder if this whole physical plane was originally an energy construct intentionally created by a huge number of spirits and it all slowly became more physical over time.

And maybe every biological species was also intentionally created by spirits as energy constructs.

Potentially. I’m not sure but it strikes me that saying the galactic dust which is magnetised, (Ben Davidson et al) coalesced and condensed into matter through the action of electromagnetic fields and gravity, and saying spirits held the planet together until it could hold itself, sound very similar and look similar in my minds eye. :slight_smile: Different focus different language.

Maybe? Could be a bit of some and some. I do believe evolution makes sense, and I think it acts much faster than over millions of years. So you’d only need one species to start with and it would flourish from there. Which could be desirable as it allows for the spirits of the species to be involved in adapting to the environment, and is very interesting to study.

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Aren’t electromagnetic feilds and gravity already made of physical matter to begin with or atleast a result of such?

I’m guessing this “galactic dust” is actually some form of incorporeal energy?

That would be super awesome if spirits are involved with biological evolution. @Mulberry

Who did you hear this from.

If you believe YHWH is God then yes because we are all sons and daughters of God and come from Adam and Eve’s lineage.

Other religions or spiritual ideologies would say yes, Christians would say no.

I would say it’d be more accurate to say we evolve through the process of evolution, the uploading of the ancestors which then go through micro evolution and the DNA is changed. We have many different groups on ancestors but the first group of humans evolved from a ape common ancestor and then evolved into homo sapiens.

Some believe there are verses in the Bible that support reincarnations. But there is a reincarnation (uploading) of all the past DNA going back to the first amino acids. That’s why I said evolution.

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Wow. you drank ALL of Abraham’s koolaid!
1.NO, not all humans are human, some of us are from older races or from elsewhere.

2.Just what is your understanding of a god? a lot of “gods” will tell you they’re really just more evolved beings. Earth Humans are the joke of the galaxy.

  1. I hate to break this to you, but every intelligent race within fifty light years came here to drop a greasy load in our gene pool. but hey, We were color coded from the beginning to Terra-form this place originally anyway. we originally were not a species, we were a building crew.
    I know lady Bastet on a very personal level, ask her about all this, she’ll gladly tell you.
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