18 days of Ahriman

and that’s where our approach fundamentally defers I suppose. To me, the so called “natural order” represented by Angels, Celestials, Ahura Mazda etc. is something to be completely obliterated to bring forth a final victory. These forces are what keep us trapped and their destruction would mean the end of limitation. In other words, I view the “natural order” of these beings as inherently limiting and therefore something to be conquered.

“Ahriman does not want to destroy this world. He only wants to destroy the imposed LIMITS of creation”

  • Kurtis Joseph Black Magick of Ahriman

Victory is an act of order - it is the imposition of a new order, sure, but it;s the same old thing of having things set in a specific way and then protecting that heirarchy.

The thing is, I wasn’t kidding when I drew the link from clockwork order to basic things like gravity, cellular division, the things found within nature that are NOT in any way moralistic.

If you wanted to dispense with those, the human mind (en masse) would simply recreate new order from what it perceives, just as a person who’s dreaming gets random mental impulses and their mind strings them into a narrative, of sorts, or the same concept as pareidolia.

You quote Kurtis Joseph: “Ahriman does not want to destroy this world. He only wants to destroy the imposed LIMITS of creation” - but the sense of wholeness I got from retrieving the Ahriman current into my spine shows that to hold this power, to break those limitations and to eternally expand into more life, more power, and more complexity, is in itself a part of nature - both chaos, and order, are aspects of the Source, aka US, it’s only the anti-life troll god strands that attempted to kill the one force by using the other, I did explore the metaphysics of this here:

Also, you have yourself expressed great enthusiasm for enforcing laws, via imprisonment and even stronger sanctions, so that’s a bit contradictory? :wink:

I mean, you see the value in laws that benefit people in a positive way, right, even if your definition of that may differ in some ways from mine?


@Lady_Eva Hence why “natural order” was in quotes. I would say it’s not even about Order vs Chaos but Limitation vs Power hence why I disagree with the complete “destroy everything” types. As far as I can tell, the videos on the Path of Smoke seem to make it clear that Ahura Mazda is a force of limitation to be devoured. The video below seems to paint a picture of Forces of Limitation vs Ahriman. The point I believe is that Ahura Mazda is limitation while Ahriman is the breaking of limitation.

I didn’t have any dealings with Ahura Mazda (obviously) but I do believe Ahriman is the force within us which got blocked and even locked due to centuries, possibly even millenia, of limitation - I believe as a rough outline that there was some society that pre-dated the Egyptians, going back longer than 40000bce in other words.

I think that civilisation had the ability to endless ascent while manifest in the flesh, perhaps with things ate a slightly higher harmonic, perhaps on another planet, or even (I have an open mind on this) with the Earth itself in a different location.

And that something came along and fucked that up, cast us back into some lowered state, and then attempted to crush the last lingering spark of godlike power. It’s possible we weren’t “human” as such at that time, I don’t know, I’m trying to look at what I’ve seen and not make up too much narrative to try and string together the details.

The “troll god” entity, when I saw its true form, was like encrustations of things humans had created - it could only exist within what it parasitised, or what people feared.

Whether this constitutes the Ahuras Mazda Kurtis is talking about, I don’t know. Rules are not automatically limitation though, for example the rulesa that keep your cellular division limited are what stop you dying of cancer, the rules that say “stop eating, you’ve had enough” are what stop you being a 500lbs person welded to a sofa, etc.

So we may be looking at slightly different things here.

Humans have natural and innate psychic abilities, we see that with kids, it’s like a rule of nature, and we see similar things, even allowing for massive cultural and racial differences; core shamanism is the fruit of this because Harner discovered that all cultures have a broaly similar structure when they travel in spirit worlds, even though many aspects are linked to local environment.

Not all limitations or natural rules are bad - not all breaking of rules is great, or likely to lead to wisdom or more life. Both, taken to excess, are destructive of human potential and happiness.


@Lady_Eva I never said that rules were automatically bad. Just that the rules of this particular spiritual force definitely seem to be.

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Cool, then where we may have (maybe) gotten crossed wires is that not all the stuff I describe as “clockwork laws like gravity” and which is generally called “the light” is the same as that constricting force.


@Lady_Eva I actually think that the big theoretical difference is that I view both the true Light and the Dark (Life and Death, Creation and Destruction) as being infernal forces (or fundamentally black in other words) and Ahura Mazda purely as an “energetic blockage” as Kurtis Joseph puts it (though I tend to think of it more as an Earth-wide blockage which then extends to the individual).


I am very interested in Ahriman. He is powerful, gigantic, its like chaos darkness which leads to creation. Which is his relation to Lucifer? Its like that feeling i see you - you see me. Which would be the best soft way to approach Ahriman? I find working with the Qlippoth wonderful, there is true love, brotherhood and bondness. Ahriman is different.


Maybe get the book Gates Of Dozak, it has a structured pathworking that seems stable and lacks the chaotic/destructive edge some Ahrimanian work carries. A lot of the stuff in it matched my own experiences, especially the portrayals of the spirits, who appeared to me in those forms before I saw the book, and also the use of gates, so this is why I recommend it, given what I think you are asking for here.

Ahriman is so much more than this but you need to start in a way that fits your needs.


Very nice, thanks a lot!!! :sunny:

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I would definitely recommend Gates Of Dozak, Drauga-Ahrimanian Yatuk Dinoh and Black Magic of Ahriman


Lady_Eva, i suppose that you didn’t use Triangle of Ahrimanian Evocation, human bone powder, serpent sacrifice… I’m interested in your opinion is this really necessary?

It’s important to note I did this working in February 2014, around 3 years before BMoA was published, so the system was not in place at that time.

I would imagine that to do the work and enter the current described in BMoA, yes, I have particularly noted @KurtisJoseph’s words and that he did not take the sacrifice lightly: Serpent - #6 by KurtisJoseph.

Gates Of Dozak does not contain any need for the same things, but it is a very different system, and my method had the foundation of, at that time, over 20 years of spirit contact, evocation and soul travel, and also came through one of E.A.'s videos (Evocation of Azi Dahaka) so the entire foundation was different. I remained in that current for far less time as it was finally a gateway to another piece of work I did.

So these are 3 different approaches and mixing and matching is probably not wise given that this is a very powerful, life-altering current.

You would need to really ask Kurtis about his system, I am not going to venture into guesswork, he’s an awesome dude and does often pop onto the forum and reply. :+1:



Thank you for the clear answer


I am wondering about the same. These are ingredients that are hard to find.
I wouldn’t try to find human bone powder. And there is no way I would sacrifice a living snake :woman_shrugging:
I would just substitute them with other ingredients.

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As I described my work predated publication of the BMoA book which called for those things, and it wasn’t a similar system either, nor seeking the exact same things.

I gather LuciferianApotheca sells legal human bone powder, but it’s not a thing I would use, knowing what I do now about the implications of sacrificing one’s own species, or parts thereof, even symbolically, and I’ve never been a fan of animal sacrifice (though I eat meat, so opinions would vary on whether that’s as bad/worse).

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I had no idea about your work. :see_no_evil::see_no_evil: I am apologising.
I could have access to human bones and legally too but I d rather not involve that person in magic. It wouldn’t be appreciated by that soul …
What did you substitute it with? And is there any link that I could search and read your work on that?
I have the book BMoA and I just read it atm. I haven’t made up my mind if I am going to proceed doing it.
I have felt Ahrimans energy 3 or 4 times by now kinda trying to communicate with me. I can’t take the decision due to some fears… of creating enemies with spirits as the book says in the beginning stages.
All I know is that I need a change in my life because currently things don’t work the way it is.
I am working through Asenath Mason book on Qlipothic magic and I have seen doors opening for me and astral senses becoming stronger but I have no idea how to join the temple of the ascending flame. I went to the webpage and I can’t find how to make communication.

I did my own working with Ahriman described in this thread about three years BEFORE the book with Kurtis’ own specific method came out, see the above - I wrote this in 2014.

My work was completely separate, Kurtis found and used his own method and published it 3 years afterwards, so neither are linked. :smiley:

So I didn’t need it, or need to substitute anything for it. My work was my own original stuff, and not derived from a book at all.

Yes, all of this thread from the first post is my log of that working. :+1:

There’s more here:

This is also conceptually linked:

I don’t know anything about that, sorry, but try sending her a PM through her account here and include your e-mail in the message?

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Thank you so much!! I really appreciate it and sorry about my stupidity not scrolling up. I had a brain fog for some reason :see_no_evil::see_no_evil: apologies.
I will have a look in all you have written about this magic.
I have one question only… if I do this magic will the angels that I have worked with undo their work for me? And will the angels refuse to work with me in the future?
This is the only thing that stops me from starting today with the rituals.

It varies, so the best thing is to ask them, using divination or directly. :+1:

If you read my work that I’ve linked, you’ll see my model of reality, and that both forces are essential, I work with both types of forces but not necessarily at the exact same time, and sometimes working deeply with one force means it’s difficult or even dangerous to work with the “opposite” at the same time, especially to begin with.