Working with the elements


#1

Has here anyone ever worked with the elements? Is there a guide for it and what about Bardons guide? I have been doing alot of research about the elements and am trying to find some good sources any help would be appreciated.
VR
BP


Wanting to start getting stronger
#2

I did some work with the Elemental King of water, Nixsa, last year. I was directed to increase my affinity with water through the study of Tai C’hi.

I had alot of trouble finding resources for this work, how ever E.A. lists sigils for each elemental king in Evoking Eternity.

I also found using the Ace’s from my tarot deck and Astrally projecting into them in order to visit elemental planes to be vey effective. In fact I haven’t been able to project to any location as easily as I did with these


#3

I work with the elements on a daily basis. They’re definitely useful. In fact, they give you a really solid ground-working for working with specific energies and combinations of. The reason being is that the elements plus the electric and magnetic “fluids” are the primal energies of the universe (as far as most systems are concerned) - so by getting a solid feel for these, you gain a very sturdy groundwork for working with just about anythign else.
Bardons work is great, yeah - but there are others too.
Actually - Bardon’s IIH does give a very detailed and well developed system for working with the elements - however, if you do Bardon’s system you’ll most likely want to actually work through all of the previous steps up to and including the heavier elemental steps. Which is actually quite a bit of work, but imo it’s well worth it.
To kick it off, try causing the following “feelings” and sensations to happen as is associated with each element - into a little ball in your palm, and work with it a little bit before dissolving it.

Fire:
Hot, expansive, electric, bright, red, yellow, the will, passion, etc.

Water:
cool, contractive, magnetic, dark, black, blue, emotional, etc.

Air:
Light (as in light-weight/not heavy), intellect, intelligence, light-blue, slightly electric, the medium that bonds fire and water / or in other words, Air is the turbulence caused by the interaction between fire and water.

Earth:
Dark, gravity, heavy, cold, dry, compressing, stability, pillars, condensation, the final stage of matter.

Here’s a good chart that makes it easy to remember:

But yeah - good choice with getting to know the elements. They have helped me in so many ways I can’t even count it. The elements are at work in everything: mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally … once you understand the elements and how they work and move on the different planes and phenomena of our reality - the simpler things become - the easier it is to dissect spells and incantations and say, “oooh shit - THAT’s how it works!”


#4

ahhhhhh…that was one of the exercises to the old OAA…which probably is out there on a silent level now…

you are certainly correct in that you can see the difference between those elements…

DK…how old did you say you were?..How were you able to cram ingesting all this knowledge in one short life time?..ha.

Uncle Fester


#5

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#6

I have been using the fire mundra and mantra. I can say it def works I feel the flames rush up. I need to evoke Djin and just jump in. I know the final point if you will is to combine the elements in the body and allow them to be housed in not only the hand but in the body parts as well. DK do you have any experience with this?
BP


#7

[quote=“blackpheonix, post:6, topic:634”]I have been using the fire mundra and mantra. I can say it def works I feel the flames rush up. I need to evoke Djin and just jump in. I know the final point if you will is to combine the elements in the body and allow them to be housed in not only the hand but in the body parts as well. DK do you have any experience with this?
BP[/quote]

I keep my astral body elementally balanced. I do a daily meditation to remove the destructive side of each element and impregnate mild amounts of energy for each astral quarter. ie: fire in the head and neck, air in the torso and upper arms, water in the heart and abdomen down to the pelvic bowl and forearms, and earth in the hands and legs.
There are more in depth systems that get all the way down to the electro magnetic fluids and positive and negative aspects of earth/fire/air/water in the body. Such as the lungs are air, the heart is fire in some areas and water in others, the kidneys are water I think, each finger and toe have specific designations etc. For the hermetic path, this level of depth usually belongs to the kabbalah - which is definitely something I find of great interest. Each letter of the alphabet is assigned a specific elemental or cross/mix elemental attributes and their correlation to the body along with a specific color in the spectrum and a specific sound, tone, and attributed numeric value. It gets pretty intense. But - for instance, the letter “A” would be a light blue, which belongs to the air element, which resonates at a certain note and correlate to the lungs specifically. So you would imagine the light blue energy filling your lungs while imagining the letter “A” and it’s note and tone as well. Apparently, once you get this down solid, you can say a kabbalistic phrase like (this isn’t an actual kabbalistic phrase fyi :P) “Crumble the towers of the enemies mind” - but say it in such a way that each letter or combination of letters activate the colors, tones, feelings, elemental energies and body part or organ, and just by saying it in a magickal way - your enemies mind will crumble into insanity. That is what they say the difference between just saying words, and actually concocting a magickal incantation. It’s really quite fascinating.
So - I’m totally going off topic :smiley: hehe


#8

you guys should check up the Chinese element Qigong, is pretty specific and highly effective, as well as the most ballanced system I’ve seen yet.

I’ve been working with them as part of my paradigm and won’t change it with the Western one.


#9

[quote=“777C, post:8, topic:634”]you guys should check up the Chinese element Qigong, is pretty specific and highly effective, as well as the most ballanced system I’ve seen yet.

I’ve been working with them as part of my paradigm and won’t change it with the Western one.[/quote]

Chinese elemental chi gong is interesting. I find many a similarity, but may differences. Even among some of the elements that kinda correlate to the western elemental view, there are some unique differences that I’ve never been able to really figure out. I actually wonder, if some of the chinese elemental magick as relates to the western elements, are actually variations of the forces. Because metal doesn’t totally align with anything directly, and fire - in the chinese sense is almost like a mix between our fire element and akasha … so - I dunno. Trying to peg that down to figure out exactly what is going on is a bit difficult for me even though some magicians claim to have figured it out - it doesn’t 100% fit the mold. Ya know what I mean? Have you read any of Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming’s books on chi gong?


#10

yes I did, but with all due respect he’s no authority in Qigong, he’s good with martial arts and jiben neigong (basic power training for MA) of internal martial arts as well as Shaolin styles

the Five Elements I am reffering to pertain to the whole of the Chinese culture, and are also very popular in Japan, Koreea, and some of the other Asian countries that derived their culture from the Chinese ~ also the Five Element theory covers every aspect of their culture, from music and philosophy to love making and magic, food, you name it.
what I mean to say is that they have this theory embedded in every aspect that you could think of, and to date people here (I’m in China at the moment) still use this way of thinking on a daily basis, so you see it’s so different from the Western tradition that limits the usage of the Five Elements to minute parts such as astrology , and metaphysics in general (which you would agree are not the everyday concern of most people, especially nowadays).
this feature makes their usage extremely practical :slight_smile:

I don’t really feel the two traditions could overlap, at the heart of the Western / Indian tradition what you have is the Ether, meanwhile the Eastern tradition has Earth ~ it’s more focused on practical aplication, or what EA would call, convergence.

If you’re interested to find out more, I’m sure you’d get a kick out of this:
http://daoistmagic.org/catalog.php?sid=&email=

PM me if interested


#11

[quote=“777C, post:10, topic:634”]yes I did, but with all due respect he’s no authority in Qigong, he’s good with martial arts and jiben neigong (basic power training for MA) of internal martial arts as well as Shaolin styles

the Five Elements I am reffering to pertain to the whole of the Chinese culture, and are also very popular in Japan, Koreea, and some of the other Asian countries that derived their culture from the Chinese ~ also the Five Element theory covers every aspect of their culture, from music and philosophy to love making and magic, food, you name it.
what I mean to say is that they have this theory embedded in every aspect that you could think of, and to date people here (I’m in China at the moment) still use this way of thinking on a daily basis, so you see it’s so different from the Western tradition that limits the usage of the Five Elements to minute parts such as astrology , and metaphysics in general (which you would agree are not the everyday concern of most people, especially nowadays).
this feature makes their usage extremely practical :slight_smile:

I don’t really feel the two traditions could overlap, at the heart of the Western / Indian tradition what you have is the Ether, meanwhile the Eastern tradition has Earth ~ it’s more focused on practical aplication, or what EA would call, convergence.

If you’re interested to find out more, I’m sure you’d get a kick out of this:
http://daoistmagic.org/catalog.php?sid=&email=

PM me if interested[/quote]

lol - I apologize for perhaps not representing myself more properly - I’m always down for learning more, but I have read every chigong and internal martial arts book I could get my hand on in the last 5 years. By no means am I a neophyte when it comes to chinese philosophy and/or meditation practices. I’ve read everything from mo pai, to nei gong, to chi gong, to zen buddhism to material on the harder to find buddhist priests of the left hand path. However, I can’t say I know everything, and I’m always hungry for something new. So, ya never know. I just happened to be reading Jwing-Mings bone marrow and brain washing book. Fascinating, to say the least. My old Chi Gong master has a similar - albeit somewhat perverted and twisted version of brain washing and marrow washing.
At any rate - I find the inconsistencies between the elements somewhat troubling. If the 5 chinese elements are present to them, then they are present to us, and vice versa. The Akasha or wu is similar. All things spring from wu chi - including the energies - then if the 5 energies of each school of though - being slightly different - infers that there are either energies of each system that are missing but inclusive in the other, or that energies are much more malleable than originally thought. Of one “element” can take on the attributes (or even possibly group of elements - can’t be too sure) of one eastern aspect but might also exist as the western magickal traditions think - then that just may very well turn out to be fascinating and extremely useful. I have found that I can get fire to maintain it’s intense light and explosive nature but infuse it with a coldness that is only usually indicative of water or, at a more base level - the magnetic fluids or yin energy. This is why it has become so fascinating to me. What if - just what if, anything can be pulled from the akasha - and the ancients only settled on 4 of them because it was just easier that way? Because there’s only four basic element-like projections? So they named them as such, when in fact there is a plethora of possibilities?
Is this not possible? Because I’ve whipped up some pretty unique energies that wouldn’t fit into any normal elemental system. So, then I ask - what is the explanation for that? I wonder…


#12

[quote=“DK The Mage, post:11, topic:634”][quote=“777C, post:10, topic:634”]yes I did, but with all due respect he’s no authority in Qigong, he’s good with martial arts and jiben neigong (basic power training for MA) of internal martial arts as well as Shaolin styles

the Five Elements I am reffering to pertain to the whole of the Chinese culture, and are also very popular in Japan, Koreea, and some of the other Asian countries that derived their culture from the Chinese ~ also the Five Element theory covers every aspect of their culture, from music and philosophy to love making and magic, food, you name it.
what I mean to say is that they have this theory embedded in every aspect that you could think of, and to date people here (I’m in China at the moment) still use this way of thinking on a daily basis, so you see it’s so different from the Western tradition that limits the usage of the Five Elements to minute parts such as astrology , and metaphysics in general (which you would agree are not the everyday concern of most people, especially nowadays).
this feature makes their usage extremely practical :slight_smile:

I don’t really feel the two traditions could overlap, at the heart of the Western / Indian tradition what you have is the Ether, meanwhile the Eastern tradition has Earth ~ it’s more focused on practical aplication, or what EA would call, convergence.

If you’re interested to find out more, I’m sure you’d get a kick out of this:
http://daoistmagic.org/catalog.php?sid=&email=

PM me if interested[/quote]
What if - just what if, anything can be pulled from the akasha - and the ancients only settled on 4 of them because it was just easier that way? Because there’s only four basic element-like projections? So they named them as such, when in fact there is a plethora of possibilities?[/quote]

Indeed a very intriguing thought.
I believe we can pull out of it only as much as our environment allows, both internally and externally.
Let me explain:

  • if you’re familliar with the quest for Earth like planets, there are many types of solar systems out there, some of them have two dwarf suns, and the giant planets are closer to the heart of that solar system, also the orbits of the planets are very strange, turning a planet into hell as it gets close to the sun, and into a frozen desert as it gets away from it.
  • we have and equal day and night, sun and moon (yin and yang), seven planets (seven chackras), the poles don’t shift too often, and the planet is not wobbling… it has a straight axis (the central channel)
  • internally, we have the five major organs (associated with the five elements in daoist meditation, and five planets) ~ and many more aspects… all of these are made for us, and they define us as well as limiting us… limits give us identity.

There is also the part where people start working towards ascent and conversion, and discover their world changes, and what was fixed and very definite is not so fixed anymore; as you progress and your understanding leaps forward, you begin asking yourself questions as the one you mentioned above: what else could be pulled out of the void?

I think there’s no limit to that, and if there is, it molds itself to the degree of awakening that you possess, and to the way you change your inner and outer worlds.

Sorry for the long ramble :slight_smile:


#13

so anyway if you choose to work with the Elements via the daoist tradition, you should know that to them the elements are not things, are not reified, but they define stages or frequencies of the Qi.
what does it mean exactly? it means that you can combine them the way you have spoken above.

in short, yes I’ve worked with the elements, but in the daoist tradition you don’t put the fire into the head, that’s a big no-no, it can cause problems.
you put it in your belly ~ Bardon’s method seems too simplistic, it doesn’t take into account that ever person has a PERSONAL elemental chart, and your work is to balance it out.


#14

[quote=“777C, post:13, topic:634”]so anyway if you choose to work with the Elements via the daoist tradition, you should know that to them the elements are not things, are not reified, but they define stages or frequencies of the Qi.
what does it mean exactly? it means that you can combine them the way you have spoken above.

in short, yes I’ve worked with the elements, but in the daoist tradition you don’t put the fire into the head, that’s a big no-no, it can cause problems.
you put it in your belly ~ Bardon’s method seems too simplistic, it doesn’t take into account that ever person has a PERSONAL elemental chart, and your work is to balance it out.[/quote]

Perhaps, again, I have misrepresented. Bardon is all about achieving and maintaining elemental balance - or as he calls it, Magickal Equipoise.
In the western tradition, the elements are also concepts and variants of the frequencies, not actual things.
Also - the fire in the head is the astral elemental placement, the physical body has a different elemental and electromagnetic structure entirely.
You wouldn’t want to force fire into the head - in fact, I’m pretty sure we all know that’s a big no-no. Actually, forcing any of the energies through the brain tissue and head is a really bad idea.
Balancing the astral body elements is directly related to releasing the negative attributes in ones self. Overcoming addictions (fire/earth/water - depending on the cause), anger issues(obviously fire), laziness(earth and water), pride (air) … etc.
So, the only time you would actual manipulate the elements directly in the astral form is either in deep meditation where you can work solely on your astral body, or during an out of body experiment.


#15

:slight_smile: yes I’m familliar with that, it is the initiate’s way, yet people could do it as easily with a balanced diet that takes elemental charts into account, and so on, there are many ways ~ it can become a lifestyle.

Still nothing beats evoking the Elemental Kings methinks :slight_smile:


#16

[quote=“777C, post:15, topic:634”]:slight_smile: yes I’m familliar with that, it is the initiate’s way, yet people could do it as easily with a balanced diet that takes elemental charts into account, and so on, there are many ways ~ it can become a lifestyle.

Still nothing beats evoking the Elemental Kings methinks :)[/quote]
well said. The elemental kings can cause great change quite rapidly. However, for me personally, I lack greatly in the “will” department - so I’m working with my elements in this particular manner. Apparently it helps solidify and strengthen the will. And me, being the highly addictive, and lazy prone man that I am, hehe, definitely could use a bit extra will power :stuck_out_tongue:
=== edit ===
also - the diet way is definitely appeasing to me. I haven’t traveled that road yet - but ayurvedic medicine and elemental diet is one thing I’ve been meaning to grapple with soon. I have definitely noticed a difference with the foods I eat and the direct association it has with elemental “outbreaks”.


#17

i work with element eg anywhere i go the is electricity the is blink of light when on and also the electric fan movefast


#18

the is flickering of light around me and anytime i argue outside the whether changes electric fan move east in presence


#19

Thanks so much for this chart!

[quote=“DK The Mage, post:3, topic:634”]I work with the elements on a daily basis. They’re definitely useful. In fact, they give you a really solid ground-working for working with specific energies and combinations of. The reason being is that the elements plus the electric and magnetic “fluids” are the primal energies of the universe (as far as most systems are concerned) - so by getting a solid feel for these, you gain a very sturdy groundwork for working with just about anythign else.
Bardons work is great, yeah - but there are others too.
Actually - Bardon’s IIH does give a very detailed and well developed system for working with the elements - however, if you do Bardon’s system you’ll most likely want to actually work through all of the previous steps up to and including the heavier elemental steps. Which is actually quite a bit of work, but imo it’s well worth it.
To kick it off, try causing the following “feelings” and sensations to happen as is associated with each element - into a little ball in your palm, and work with it a little bit before dissolving it.

Fire:
Hot, expansive, electric, bright, red, yellow, the will, passion, etc.

Water:
cool, contractive, magnetic, dark, black, blue, emotional, etc.

Air:
Light (as in light-weight/not heavy), intellect, intelligence, light-blue, slightly electric, the medium that bonds fire and water / or in other words, Air is the turbulence caused by the interaction between fire and water.

Earth:
Dark, gravity, heavy, cold, dry, compressing, stability, pillars, condensation, the final stage of matter.

Here’s a good chart that makes it easy to remember:

But yeah - good choice with getting to know the elements. They have helped me in so many ways I can’t even count it. The elements are at work in everything: mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally … once you understand the elements and how they work and move on the different planes and phenomena of our reality - the simpler things become - the easier it is to dissect spells and incantations and say, “oooh shit - THAT’s how it works!”[/quote]


#20

Try to work with card Power from Thoth Tarot deck. It could be helpful in many ways.