Why conjure up a Demon?

[A.J.V]

First of all I would like to say that using the Prayer or asking the Angels or even more directly the Creator has nothing wrong, nor is it a wrong practice, I myself almost all my life have meditated and made my requests directly to the Creator and in many occasions through the archangel Gabriel.

Why do I conjure demons now?

With magic we alter reality for our purposes and convenience; and what is reality? Reality is what we perceive and create with the great computer that is our Brain, rather as stated by Dr. Jacobo Grinberg in his Synergistic theory, reality is created half that we perceive it.

Now our brain is a great computer that manages the perception we have of reality to better use our brain we must correctly execute the programs that are installed in it.

Following this idea, although I am not a student of Crowley, I agree with one of his statements in which he indicates that the 72 demons of the Ars Goetia are parts of our brain, perhaps we could go a little further and say that Demons and even other Spirits, Entities and Gods, Angels and Archangels are programs that are encoded in our brain

Returning to the beginning of the topic, why evoke a Demon instead of an Angel? This super computer (Brain) is composed of various programs (Angels, spirits or Demons) that act according to a hierarchical order, together or individually , to achieve general or specific functions.

Magic scholars such as Poke Runyon suggest using an order embodied in this mandala Master of the 72 Goetia demons in evocations.

Now let’s imagine for a moment that we want to write a document on our computer, it would be very difficult if we decided to write this document using directly programming code or the MS2 on which Windows works, it would be easier to use the famous Microsoft Word and write the document.

In my humble opinion when we evoke an Angel or Archangel to obtain a change in reality we would be using deeper functions of the system or, to put it another way, functions less close to an application in reality.

A demon is more appropriate to make a request related to changes in our reality, working on a more earthly plane; a devil should not be considered good or bad, better or worse; it is simply the specific program that we must execute for the selected task and thus quickly manifest it in our reality.

Going back to the beginning, there is nothing wrong with summoning an angel to make a request, but remember that it may take a lot of practice and perseverance to accomplish the task.

Finally I am sorry if this post has been very extensive, I just wanted to give my first contribution to the community, share your opinions on this topic. Greetings.
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[MagickVigilante]

@A.J.V

Going back to the beginning, there is nothing wrong with summoning an angel to make a request, but remember that it may take a lot of practice and perseverance to accomplish the task

I assume you are saying demons work faster than angels because they are closer to our reality, am I correct?

Personally I believe both demons and Angels can work well, it depends on the individual though.

Some people vibe better with angels and some with demons, some are just fine with both.

Of course, I am not talking about cutting off a race or pantheon because of trauma related to the human beliefs surrounding that pantheon, as Yahweh and Angels Don’t actually act in accordance with the human beliefs surrounding them in the mega dogmatic Abrahamic religions, and neither does Source/the Creator.

I am saying some people just vibe better with certain energies.

I will give you an example, there was a member who came for help, because apparently the Infernal empire didn’t like him, no matter what he tried, he would just get negative feels from the demons.

And others had angels after them.

[A.J.V]

@MagickVigilante

Some people vibe better with angels and some with demons, some are just fine with both.

I agree with you, without a doubt there are people who work better with demons and others work better with angels.

I also think that a large part of the negative results that a person obtains when evoking Demons or Angels, come from collective agreements that other men have imposed through churches and religions, all this to keep the majority of people under social control.
My line of ideas tries to dismantle these structures of thought.

Opening our mind to work with Angels and Demons together, could lead us to unleash our potential and capabilities.

And as I said in my original post, learn to better use the super computer that is our brain.

[anon39079500]

If you’re asking this question, it’s apparent you haven’t really done it or done enough of it. You’re trying to make a case from other people’s gnosis and theories. This is also why it seems to be an either/or appeal. You’re limiting yourself by not branching out. Whether that’s a problem is obviously up to you and your practice.

If I’m calling for healing for myself, it’s Marbas, hands down. Why? Because I’ve gotten better results from him than Raphael. For others, it could be Helios or Hi’iaka or Raphael. This happens from experience. Others have different experiences. Good for them for having them. I can and have called on them for myself, too, just to be clear.

I would encourage you to branch out and have a variety of experiences. Find your own gnosis and path. Best of luck.

[A.J.V]

Greetings, thanks for your recommendations, without a doubt I am not an expert, I can only say that I have been working my mind for many years and currently I practice evocation regularly.

The title of the topic is not a personal question, in fact initially the title of this topic was going to be why evoke a demon instead of an angel ?, I finally decided on the current title because what has worked best for me, they are Gordon Winterfield’s Rituals, involving angels and demons.
However, this line of thinking that I do initially has been taken from various sources and can help many to get started with their evocations.

I have not studied gnosis but if I have seen a couple of books that I am going to read, because I like the idea of ​​branching out and exploring, I think your recommendation to be open to branching is totally correct. I will keep practicing and exploring all the paths to continue making my own path as well.

@anon39079500

If I’m calling for healing for myself, it’s Marbas, hands down. Why? Because I’ve gotten better results from him than Raphael.

I found what you said about Marbas to cure interesting, healing is one of my topics of interest. Thanks again for your recommendations.

[Mike_Bee]

I’m going to give you my two cents right now.

@A.J.V

have not studied gnosis but if I have seen a couple of books that I am going to read, because I like the idea of ​​branching out and exploring, I think your recommendation to be open to branching is totally correct. I will keep practicing and exploring all the paths to continue making my own path as well

I understand what Crowley was saying about the Goetic spirits being parts of ourselves. When we think that the entire universe is an aspect of ourselves then ok I can agree with the statement.

Looking at things from a more down to earth perspective where there are distinct lines between what is me and what is not me I can tell you that the Goetic spirits are most definitely NOT merely aspects of ourselves personified. They are REAL and OBJECTIVE beings that exist wether or not i am alive and here or not. That’s my view and base it on a great deal of experience with Goetic evocation.

But here’s the thing wether they are parts of us or objective entities it doesn’t actually matter for practical purposes. We treat them as if they’re objective and independent entities regardless of what thier true nature may be.

[MagickVigilante]

@Mike_Bee

But here’s the thing wether they are parts of us or objective entities it doesn’t actually matter for practical purposes

I disagree, understanding that they are individuals beyond mere thoughtforms generated by us helps.

It helps with understanding their likes and dislikes, their history and level of power, which in my opinion should be taken into account when dealing with them.

Otherwise the magickian may run the risk of messing things up if he believes they are mere aspects of his consciousness only.

I personally believe we are all consciousness, but tend to see the differences in individuals, whether spirits or aliens or humans, it helps understanding the differences in your practice. You wouldn’t summon Azazel and Raphael in the same room knowing they don’t like each other. No amount of shifting your beliefs is going to change that imo.

Anyway this is just my 2 cents, what do you think @Mike_Bee

[Mike_Bee]

@MagickVigilante

disagree, understanding that they are individuals beyond mere thoughtforms generated by us helps

I appreciate your opinion but what do you base that on? You’re “extensive”. experience with the evocation of demons.

You’ve a right to your views however.

My thoughts keep practicing magick and evocation. Key words practicing…

[A.J.V]

I like to think that Demons are part of our brain and I also like to think that they are individual entities with characteristics, histories and personalities of their own as @MagickVigilante says; of course it helps a lot in magical processes, provides context and focuses on things that are very necessary for the process.

To do my bit as well, I can tell you that one of the things that has helped me to think that both thoughts are possible is the theory of fractal universes.

Under this theory, demons, angels or spirits would be part of us and in some way we would also be part of them.

In addition, it agrees perfectly with the Frace: “As Above is Below, As is Inside, is Outside”

What do you think about that ?

[Mike_Bee]

@A.J.V

Under this theory, demons, angels or spirits would be part of us and in some way we would also be part of them.

If you subscribe to the idea that all is one then yes we’re all apart of eachother in that sense.

The reason I disagree with the concept though is just based on my experience. I’ve evoked all 72 of the Goetic spirits and just based on the way they behave, thier likes, dislikes, personalities. They certainly don’t seem to be merely aspects of my subconscious.

I see them as objective entities.

But I understand not everyone sees it that way. There are people that have evoked all 72 such as poke Runyon and he sees it very similar to you

So I guess I’m not saying your wrong, I’m just saying I think it’s more like this than that.

You did make some salient points though.

[CashDiver]

Both views of entities understanding take place, they not confute each other and can be chosen to get things work with same success. It depends on conditions and comfort.

The more interesting question is about egregors. I’m thinking about it myself. You can choose more suitable way by experimenting and get into for real, but wouldn’t the practice of opposite direction then become unreliable? Some of entities are known as jealous even within not conflicting directions. You can also stay not involved and work with different sides time to time getting maybe less satisfying results, but if this can have specific consequences, then in certain conditions it may give harm from both conflicting egregors.

Also I don’t think that Angels and Demons are switching interface, in my opinion they just differ for work purposes and ways of achieving them without transitional complication.