When is the veil thinnest?

I’m planning on doing an involved ritual tonight, the night of the summer solstice (which was in the afternoon today here), and am wondering about timing.

The purpose of the ritual is to attempt to manifest my patron demon, Marbas, to the point of at least being a visible apparition that I can see with my eyes open looking in front of me. At most, I hope to physically manifest him, although I don’t expect that because I suspect more practice will be needed on my part.

When is the veil between our world and the astral plane the thinnest? Is it 12:00 midnight, 3:00 AM, or the true middle of the night (halfway between sunrise and sunset), which here would be 2:49 AM?

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I find that a myth, because not all places in the world have the same hour, and it would be really silly that a whole part of the universe would be worried of being thin in some places and not in others, just by basing itself on a human convention


There is no veil between this world and the astral, the astral is the collective unconscious, spirits dont cross from there. The myth in and of itself has too many flaws really as it puts it in a constant state of thinning and repairing that it makes pretty much no sense.


I have meditated and felt and seen an actual fragment of the “veil”…i believe its the psychic censor that morphs into Sth bigger but its definitely real

Think of it as a, collective “psychic censor”

But as I was, “dropping mind”…or entering the void… I saw it clearly… A barrier like a, curtain between the consciou and subconscious… And everytime I detached from the physical or thought it got thinner

I know what you mean, and that this is one of the definitions of the veil, but I was talking more about the actual semi-physical barrier between our world and the world of spirits. The reason why you can’t just walk into a demon’s world with your physical body, and why a demon can’t just walk into our world as an objective physical apparition.

Then our definitions of the astral plane aren’t the same, I think. If it’s helpful, I’m coming at this through the lens of Maergzjiran magick, which describes the astral plane as one of several planes that spirits reside in.

This is why I asked about whether the halfway point, which is 2:49 AM here, the time at which we’re closer to sunrise than sunset, would be what has significance. Times and places where something becomes something else are what has significance, because you’re right, it’s not like the veil has a clock and keeps time.

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The idea of a veil between the physical and spiritual world comes from an Roman account of an inscription underneath a statue of Isis that stated “I am all that has been and is and will be; no mortal has ever lifted my mantle.” This was further taken by the work of Helena Blavatasky’s Isis Unveiled where the idea of a veil between Humanity’s knowledge (conscious) and that of the Divine (or the Subconcious). This bled into many magical traditions to the point it morphed into the separation of the worlds entirely as opposed to the consciousness of both parties.

So, personally, I find the veil to be a human idea that can be used to understand a separation between the two. Therefore a time period within a system could be used for it as a means to immerse into the working. So if you are working with a more Wiccan system, for example, the veil would be thinnest on the Equinoxes and Solistices during the time the moon or sun (depending on the focus) is at its apex. ultimately I am in agreeance with @Velenos. I have found it to be a human tool, not necessarily how it is in reality.

I actually use more of a shamanic practice with a focus on a Axis Mundi in terms of travel into a spirit’s home during ritual.


The “veil” is merely a curtain drawn over the perceptions of the human mind that is required to function in the physical world (it’s quite detrimental to the human being to be perceiving spirits when being pursued by a sabre toothed tiger, for example).

That being said, there is great significance to the hour of 3 AM, regardless of where you are in the world (3 AM in any time zone has the same relevance). EA has a video about it on his YouTube channel that explains it better than I can, but there is a definite, distinct energy at that time of the day.


I often wonder if the collection of human belief about the witching hour often adds to the natural energy shift of that specific hour. If I recall correctly, it has to do with the belief of three o’ clock in the afternoon was the time Jesus died that emerged around the time the use of clocks were more common in the fourteenth century by the church. But there has always been a fear of the night deep in our species’ history (with the help of the later Witches’ Hammer) that might also play a role in that.


It’s been a while since I’ve seen EA’s video, but I don’t think the significance of the time has anything to do with Jesus, though that is a common belief. It’s much more likely that the Christians just usurped that naturally mystical time as a reversal of Christ’s death simply to fit their narrative of demons and devils lurking in the dark ever ready to pounce and steal souls.

What I find most interesting is the energy at 3 AM is quite distinct from that of sunrise, even if sunrise comes at 4 or 5 AM.


Oh I agree that the initial source probably has nothing to do with jesus. There is something else that makes up the base energy. I just wonder if the collective amount of fear over the years towards it has added to the actual shift.


Oh, I’ve never considered that. Good question.


Its, more of an, internal than external thing…
I believe some races of djinnic can defy this concept and even take humAAn Ms ti their realms …thereare stories… And even some fae so I heard… So no physical veil