Views on Yahweh (YHVH, YHWH, Tetragrammaton)

Enlightener · August 14, 2013, 12:57pm

Hello!
I’m new here. I was on EvocationMagic.com and left yesterday (permanently).

I’ve had a great time there but it seems some absolutely want you to agree with them at 100% or they feel you’re not listening. I LISTEN but it doesn’t mean I have to agree at 100% on everything!!! I can think for myself!

Also… A moderator was like I’ve crossed the line… How did I cross the line? Did I ever insult anybody there, called out anybody by name, personally? No!

Just because I say I am no longer keen in working with an entity or I don’t like that entity much doesn’t mean I’m being disrespectful to anybody. It’s just my honest viewpoint, nothing personal.

They say Yahweh has nothing to do with the Bible, its passages (kill homosexuals and what not), religion, what religions say, what followers of those religions do (torture, murder, executions etc.) and they make Yahweh sound completely innocent. They say Yahweh can be used for magical evocation etc. and it’s good to work with him.

But a number of mages (Pagan, LHP and so on) told me Yahweh is not so benevolent… Just hours ago, a Theistic Satanist told me he doesn’t work with Yahweh 'cause he’s not so nice. He also told me he personally knows people that have worked with him and experienced a number of bad stuff afterwards and that working with him comes with consequences.

And there’s a Pagan that told me about a personal bad experience she’s had with Yahweh. She said he collects souls, blends them in some tornado until those souls become pure energy, then sucks it all in… She said Archangel Michael had mercy and saved her…

She also told me she’s heard so many horror stories involving him that she cannot stand him at all!

Many LHPers see YHVH as a tyrant and Spirits such as Lucifer, Belial, Satan, Lilith, Asmodeus and so on as liberators of human kind.

I LISTEN and listening means listening to BOTH sides, then making a decision. I have discussed that topic on EvoMag before but shared a brand-new vid made by EA Koetting entitled ‘Why “God” HATES You’ with them.

I followed it by a brief commentary. The point of that thread was for members to watch the video, listen to what EA has to say, then comment, not so much to reignite old discussions…

But that mod did not like it much and without even commenting on the vid proceeded to grasp at straws and attack me instead accusing me of going too far etc.

He even accused me of being “obsessed” with the idea that God I want nothing to do with hates me… I’ve honestly explained to him I do NOT feel any deity hates me personally and that it’s EA KOETTING that entitled that vid ‘Why God “HATES” You’…

He also invited me to leave the forum, which I did. I certainly would not want to impose!

Here is the topic for those who want to read it. [url=http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9654]http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9654[/url]

Hopefully, I’ll have a better stay here…

E.A · August 14, 2013, 1:43pm

Yeah, if you want to start a fight over at evocationmagic, just say something positive about me. They seem to know everything about everything (even though I don’t see any books with their names on it, or training courses, or even newsletters. If you don’t like what I’m doing, then show me how it’s done, son!)

bloodroot · August 14, 2013, 2:04pm

I’ve had the same experience over there awhile back.

Recently they have stated that EA is nothing more than “sensationalism”

Their “mod” is this half-wit hack who believes he’s the supreme pontiff due to his illustrations found in many new occult releases.

sadly, when performing searches on occult information such as spirit information and background/experiences all you get are evocationmagic.com.

defectron · August 14, 2013, 3:06pm

My problem with evocation magic is alot of the people over there tend to put themselves in a box of what they believe is or isn’t possible in magic. Which is why I stopped going there.

As for yeweh, from what I understand that’s a face humans have forced onto a certain energetic intelligence, much like they have done with some demons and other beings.

system · August 14, 2013, 3:38pm

Just by reading that post I can see it is full of armchair “magicians”. Funny part was their books citations of the past occultists.

Ridiculous.

TheWanderingFool · August 14, 2013, 5:33pm

Enlightener, welcome aboard. EM is quickly becoming a stagnant pond of group think. If a certain few have a view (and I’m sure you know who I mean) then any other possibilities are simply absurd in their eyes. I think you’ll find this board more to your liking as people are more open minded and actually practice magic as opposed to just reciting their reading list as a basis for their views.

YogaApprentice · August 14, 2013, 5:49pm

Wellcome to the forums E. I.!

system · August 14, 2013, 7:59pm

Why was anyone threatened by what EA even said. He didn’t even really criticize the deity itself, at least I didn’t feel he did that. Rather, he criticized the blind ignorance of “Yahweh” followers, using narrowly translated texts that are even more narrowly approached in terms of thought and application.

I saw a similar thing like this on a Yoga site, where an individual talked about using Yoga in a magical sense. Immediately people, all of them Westerners by the way, immediately starting bringing up foolish analogies to karma, ego, purity and things of this nature. This same place emphasized sex as the Holy Grail of Tantra, so I guess this is to be expected. However, no one seemed to address the pretty common knowledge that Yoga and Daoist Alchemy have their roots in old shamanism. Magic actually came first, the pull for purity is a particular type of Yoga, and although it is a process within Tantra and Taoist Alchemy, this purity process is for practical energy flow, and can eventually be superceded after a degree of mastery.

But stuff like this is going to happen, and sadly enough, many counter-YHWHists will also fall into the same trap of narrow approach. Many Satanists, instead of being liberated from their Judeo-Christian roots, end up just being anti-Judeo-Christian, still bound to resisting the stuff. I mean, maybe I’m missing something, but did anyone really see EA call Yahweh bad? Folks just got mad because he criticized beliefs drawn from texts… that’s a clear sign things might be pretty stale in terms of advancement.

Mode_439 · August 14, 2013, 8:51pm

Evocation WHAAAAAAT???

Yeah, uhm, dem boys is poo poo.

I joined that forum way back in my early months of gettn serious here (6-7months ago).

I found 0 help, I felt as if it was a forum of elitist fuck headz, I had/have no problem saying “hey…I’m new to these forms of Magick and Ascent…”

I got a LOT of well the books are out there blah blah blah…yeah no shit the books are out there. I have ALL the fucking books, I’m having trouble putting the shit together fool!!

OK…OK…I’m back now

Well EI, my experience has been 101% positive here. I’d say 110%, but, I’m still waiting for the re-release of TCW to make up the other 9%!!!

Seriously though,

Just ask. Really. I’ve learned more in the last 6months of being here on BALG than in the last 20 years of going at it alone. Take advantage of this site friend.

The courses I personally can’t say enough about. And as far as BALG’s pricing structure goes for the fucking content? E.A. and timothy should be ashamed of themselves!!!

Yeah, the pricing is more than fair.

See ya 'round the forum!

defectron · August 17, 2013, 8:10pm

Whats kinda odd is awhile back I saw a topic there about the balg forum and someone was going on about how this was a forum for beginners. But really I’ve seen much better material here then I saw there.

Enlightener · August 18, 2013, 9:29pm

EA Koetting: “You’ll find that all of these “Demons” were ancient gods, worshipped long before Moses (an Egyptian pharaoh cast out by his successor) came up with the invented god Yahwey”

[url=https://www.facebook.com/eakoetting/posts/422737457836324?comment_id=2312954&reply_comment_id=2313050&total_comments=12]Redirecting...

system · August 18, 2013, 10:03pm

My father always taught me that Moses was an Egyptian, not a Hebrew, which would be considered pretty strange coming from a Hebrew like my father. The thing with Moses being a pharaoh is a new concept for me (I say concept because I can’t honestly say what the “truth” of the story is at all), I was always taught it from Prince perspective for him, and that he was a high priest. That Moses was actually an Elder to the “Ramses” figure is a new look at it for me

Euoi · August 18, 2013, 11:44pm

Yes, Yahweh can be invoked in evocation. The Solomonic grimoires are based on devotion to God which gives you the spiritual authority to evoke spirits and bend them toyour will.
The Goetia is the most well enough grimoire, but if I were to ever use the grimoires, I’d go with the Black Dragon. It’s the least demanding and least expensive (in terms of required tools and such).
Anyway, Yahweh is oppressive. Not oppressive of magic, but of magic invoking spirits other than Him and his heavenly host. So all forms of magic that don’t invoke calling on him is against his wishes.
Also, I don’t think Yahweh is making a pure energy tornado of human souls. That sounds just a tad insane.
Whether you wish to work with God or not is your choice.

system · August 19, 2013, 2:34am

Yea, this whole “Yahweh is the REAL DEVIL,” is probably as immature as the counter pro-Yahweh ideal that everything is evil but Yahweh. Honestly, we could research and assert all we want, and still none of us would probably know the “truth”. I don’t trust any historical document brought from any person I don’t know personally, period. I further don’t trust the way people analyze things because, well, we don’t live in a society where thinking is done on a non-biased, well-rounded basis.

Folks who dislike the Yahweh mythos usually always have a great trauma related to that paradigm, many times a trauma that had nothing to do with spirits and everything to do with human idiocy and self-imprisonment disguised as religion. Instead of self-reflection upon their own shortcomings, it winds up being Yahweh’s fault or Christianity’s fault. Pro Yahweh’ers almost certainly will disregard anything that is not directly from the Bible. They can’t even see that certain exercises may be perfectly fine for them to do like yoga or meditation, simple because these things aren’t explicitly expressed in the poor translations of the Bible.

Really, the debate is pretty pointless in consideration that if Yahweh is weak, then the simple choice is to leave it alone. If you like Yahweh, follow what you learn from it, and be done. I know I have had experiences with YHWH, and never once did I feel like something was making me a servant or that I was being held back. If anything, I got held back when I decided to impose those ideas on myself, so if that is going on with people, they gotta start looking at themselves, and not some poor idea of an oppressive God. That just isn’t my experience, and I have yet to deal with a spirit period that did something that I did not invite them to do, rather consciously or through blatant, personal disregard for myself. Just my experience

system · August 19, 2013, 6:24pm

it comes down to the fact that yahweh followers are much more meddlesome than most other spirits’ followers. you can’t have an objective attitude when the issue is forced onto you in that way.[/quote]

While it would be easy to say things like this, I’m going to have to say that this isn’t necessarily the case. We find this to be the case because the sheer volume of Christians, in the West, outweighs any other group of people in the spiritual world. However, whenever you see a religious attitude taken towards things, you will find that people have a fanatical, lack-of-logical-thought approach that often comes from a very biased and groupthink stream of mentation.

For example, people practicing Yoga in the West have very little real knowledge of the origins and roots of the practice. Yet, if we were to go to a great deal of modern, Western yogis, they would berate you with ideals of Samadhi, material renunciation, “love”… magic wouldn’t even be in the question. I’ve actually brought this up to several people studying the subject, and they hated any idea of Yoga as a vehicle to training even abilities like clairvoyance, let alone evoking demons. Despite the fact that Yoga’s origins are shamanic, you would not ever here the modern, pop cultism of Yoga being thought of as an avenue toward magic.

It’s like this with a lot of things. I’m a raw food vegan, yet the community of people surrounding raw foods is terribly fanatical. I can say that to get it done well, and to gain the most benefits from it, you have to be extremely versatile and self-aware, and you can really learn a lot about your body just from practicing the eating regime in a self-oriented fashion. However, this paradigm of eating has a huge guru syndrome, and people are constantly trying to copy the “Gabriel Cousens’ Way” or the “Dan the Regenerator Way”. If there is a conflict that someone has, that person is usually referred to as idiotic, and can be hounded voraciously for their inquiry. The same will happen entering a large number of Paleo diet paradigms.

Modern, material science has been at least equally as close-minded as Christianity, with a lot less history on the Earth. The only reason people don’t view it that way is because they layman can see some of what science theory can offer, but most people in school accepted what they are told in science class without ever studying it on their own. Barely any of us have ever seen an atom with our own eyes, but we accept the teaching because some dude with an official tag said it was like that, and a few other dudes with official tags said the same thing. But I never personally seen it or worked with it, and most everyone I know hasn’t either. Science is very religious.

All this is to say, I can’t outright blame a particular God for what is clearly a universal human shortcoming in approaches to Gods, spirits, and things a lot more material like science, eating, exercise methods, fashion… the list goes on. I left my family’s YHWH worship not because I hated YHWH, but rather because they followed a way of worship that was even described in the Bible. Hell, in the Bible, or at least in the Torah, most holidays are hallmarked by 3 things: food, liquor, and music. Only priests really pray, everyone else gives their offerings, shares with the priests, and gets full and drunk while jammin’. I mentioned this, and got my ass hounded for it, so I left and was like, “Well, I’m approaching God with my own mind, this shit is lame.” But it’s not exclusive to Judeo-Christian paradigms, and it only feels that way because the sheer volume in the West is more dominant than anything else when it comes to spiritual matters.

Cheezus · August 19, 2013, 10:04pm

I had completely forgotten about Evocation Magic!

Needless to say, I was told that I should look elsewhere when I mentioned that I enjoyed Koetting’s work and his books were full of good, useful information.

Anyhoo… we all have to find our own path, am I right?

Euoi · August 20, 2013, 12:02am

On another forum, the issue of evoking Yahweh came up. As it turns out, those who attempt it get angels instead. The archangels are allegedly the only entities to have actually seen God.

system · August 20, 2013, 3:09pm

I’d also have to say that, again, we got to take into context who it is that actually tries to make these calls. I brought up the traumas because unless you deal with them, they will ultimately dictate experience. One thing that can be said about Eastern practices is that when you do them as well as you possibly can, you wind up having to confront these pre-made limiting experiences. Hell, some people address demons, and even without having any problematic calls, they get screwed up. Now we all know that this is a problem that almost certainly originates in the person calling the demon, and not the demon itself.

YHWH is a godform, and even if it is completely made up, in that pantheon it is kingshit. So, to call YHWH out without the same type of immersion that calling a God like Shiva, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, or any other King God may not be smart, if you want to bring him there rather than an angel. It also helps to understand that in that mythos, any act from an angel is considered an act of “God”, as is profusely shown in the Bible. Someone has an interaction with an angel, Like Jacob wrestling the the angel, and because of it Jacob receives the name Israel, which means, “One who strives with God.” YHWH is that auspicious in terms of that mythos, that anything done on his behalf is his action.

So for an intelligent, well-thought and well-immersed evocation, I doubt this is a problem. However, for people who have conflicts with it, I really don’t see why YHWH garners any real attention at all. He isn’t at all so important that you got to address him, and really has to be addressed without fear or ill feelings, which is easier said than done.

waltyrs · August 20, 2013, 5:46pm

[quote=“Enlightener_Illuminator, post:1, topic:1596”]Hello!
I’m new here. I was on EvocationMagic.com and left yesterday (permanently).