Ughhhhhhhhhh!

New Magician Help & Introductions
1

i hate when i cast a spell and my mind starts thinking about it and second guessing the shiit. i keep trying to tell myself to let it go but then these thoughts come and it just pisses me off cuz i feel like it is imposing on my magick. and then i try to reafirm myself that my magick will work and then before i know it im dwelling on it for 5 mins!

does thinking about the spell or having conflicting thoughts REALLY fuk up the spell or is it something that is normal to have happen and it doesnt hurt the outcome? i dont dwell on it all day but like right after i do it i get these thoughts. i wish i could control them more and get better. i guess i will just have to constantly cast to get better at letting go.

what do u guys think?

2

You need to have a strategy to detach yourself, first following the ritual, make a sand witch, afterward, use meditation to clear your mind, also, it doesn’t hurt to keep yourself busy with other stuff. Don’t dwell on the ritual with anxiety, otherwise it creates and empowers thought forms hat counteract what you are trying to accomplish.

It comes with the territory, so keep doing rituals to gain confidence, and try not to do something when you have a huge emotional stake in, otherwise it also causes anxiety and fear of loss. The more emotionally detached to any particular outcome you are, the more successful you will be, and you will achieve generally better outcomes.

E.A. has talked about this in recent news letters, they contain a lot of good helpful info and just about anyone can pick up a thing or two on the subject of how to get what you want.

3

Hello- I don’t know if my thoughts relate to your experience, but since something I’ve been thinking about/working on recently seems to tie…
I find the “water method” Taoist system to illuminate the most for me, and an idea in that tradition-view is that the mind has many “streams”… part of Tao-Mediation (In the specific sense that mediation is used- “to free the Self” not how our culture uses meditative, etc.) is joining up the many “streams” into one flow.

 Partly this is by discovering what blocks them from being together (less a focus of applying effort to make something happen, and more the thought- if it doesn't, what is causing that, what is disrupting our natural balance and such), and part is integrating our "parts"  (the view is that there isn't an "ego" but many ego(s)....  different parts of mind- like many programs running separately but on the same computer- if the computer (mind) that is running all the programs (motive-actors) can integrate.. then the "left hand can know what the right hand is doing"

I’m not sure if that is clear how it relates to your comment; to be more direct: My view is that “don’t think about it” is like the idea of assigning a task to someone (delegation), and then hovering over their shoulder… not only Micro-managing and Nit-picking, but “invading their space” and distracting them and the situation by you being there.
plus beyond the above- if one feels compelled to do that, then one doesn’t have confidence it is being taken care of. Now- I Don’t think that mean just let them do it- if you don’t feel it was taken-on &/or if you Don’t think that the one assigned (either an entity or just a Working-wind, ie a “spell” sent) if you Don’t feel that Sending is sufficient (not up to the task, or not capable at all)… well then I wouldn’t fake it, but I’d recognize that

Even once one has confidence in that is Sent to do (whatever the Goal is)- likely the mind will be caught up in it (I do feel it like generating a Wind or Wave… once it is sent- there is a pulling feeling as well as a momentum- where I sense being caught up in it a bit). That releasing that is an energetic “trick”/skill (I think the concept of Attachment, ie attached to the outcome, as in “have not lust for results” as well as “wanting it Too Much” needy … isn’t really a decision thing, its an actual energetic release.

 -Closer to saying Don't Stress out when you interact with XYZ person/situation.. and its less the thoughts in head, but how the body responds, if the "Guts" clench up.. etc.   And not ease off by "dis-associating" but being more present

-Also the part of mind that you feel is "imposing" and the part that feels pissed off by that- implies two different motive-actors, and yet from one Mind  (actually if recog what you are seeking to Affect by the Working as part of that same Mind also..)    So it would depend on  the system you are working in terms of development, but that might give something.

And the biggest response to your question of whether, or not, thinking about or having conflicting thoughts- REALLY interfere: what kind of results have you achieved? If (at least at times) you have achieved results that you sought- then it shows it can work… and the question of “success” is affected by: Goal chosen, else affected by that existing Pattern, your skill (developing over time), your attachment to current and/or aversion to what your seeking (self-conflict- at the “UnConscious Level”.
So to Circle around to where I started this- a key is whatever your view, the more Presence, the more integrated, and How you REALLY define “You” (is the you that does what you do the same “You” that works Magick?)- the key is not so much not working against your-self, but can you recognize what All_of_You is doing, reacting to, participating in the Working (or not)… get more of the_stream involved? -that’s just “2cents” of mine- luck to you

4

[quote=“Frater Apotheosis, post:2, topic:853”]You need to have a strategy to detach yourself, first following the ritual, make a sand witch, afterward, use meditation to clear your mind, also, it doesn’t hurt to keep yourself busy with other stuff. Don’t dwell on the ritual with anxiety, otherwise it creates and empowers thought forms hat counteract what you are trying to accomplish.

It comes with the territory, so keep doing rituals to gain confidence, and try not to do something when you have a huge emotional stake in, otherwise it also causes anxiety and fear of loss. The more emotionally detached to any particular outcome you are, the more successful you will be, and you will achieve generally better outcomes.

E.A. has talked about this in recent news letters, they contain a lot of good helpful info and just about anyone can pick up a thing or two on the subject of how to get what you want.[/quote]

Thank you so much! the strategy that taokua speaks about really hit home with me

5

[quote=“taokua, post:3, topic:853”]Hello- I don’t know if my thoughts relate to your experience, but since something I’ve been thinking about/working on recently seems to tie…
I find the “water method” Taoist system to illuminate the most for me, and an idea in that tradition-view is that the mind has many “streams”… part of Tao-Mediation (In the specific sense that mediation is used- “to free the Self” not how our culture uses meditative, etc.) is joining up the many “streams” into one flow.

 Partly this is by discovering what blocks them from being together (less a focus of applying effort to make something happen, and more the thought- if it doesn't, what is causing that, what is disrupting our natural balance and such), and part is integrating our "parts"  (the view is that there isn't an "ego" but many ego(s)....  different parts of mind- like many programs running separately but on the same computer- if the computer (mind) that is running all the programs (motive-actors) can integrate.. then the "left hand can know what the right hand is doing"

I’m not sure if that is clear how it relates to your comment; to be more direct: My view is that “don’t think about it” is like the idea of assigning a task to someone (delegation), and then hovering over their shoulder… not only Micro-managing and Nit-picking, but “invading their space” and distracting them and the situation by you being there.
plus beyond the above- if one feels compelled to do that, then one doesn’t have confidence it is being taken care of. Now- I Don’t think that mean just let them do it- if you don’t feel it was taken-on &/or if you Don’t think that the one assigned (either an entity or just a Working-wind, ie a “spell” sent) if you Don’t feel that Sending is sufficient (not up to the task, or not capable at all)… well then I wouldn’t fake it, but I’d recognize that

Even once one has confidence in that is Sent to do (whatever the Goal is)- likely the mind will be caught up in it (I do feel it like generating a Wind or Wave… once it is sent- there is a pulling feeling as well as a momentum- where I sense being caught up in it a bit). That releasing that is an energetic “trick”/skill (I think the concept of Attachment, ie attached to the outcome, as in “have not lust for results” as well as “wanting it Too Much” needy … isn’t really a decision thing, its an actual energetic release.

 -Closer to saying Don't Stress out when you interact with XYZ person/situation.. and its less the thoughts in head, but how the body responds, if the "Guts" clench up.. etc.   And not ease off by "dis-associating" but being more present

-Also the part of mind that you feel is "imposing" and the part that feels pissed off by that- implies two different motive-actors, and yet from one Mind  (actually if recog what you are seeking to Affect by the Working as part of that same Mind also..)    So it would depend on  the system you are working in terms of development, but that might give something.

And the biggest response to your question of whether, or not, thinking about or having conflicting thoughts- REALLY interfere: what kind of results have you achieved? If (at least at times) you have achieved results that you sought- then it shows it can work… and the question of “success” is affected by: Goal chosen, else affected by that existing Pattern, your skill (developing over time), your attachment to current and/or aversion to what your seeking (self-conflict- at the “UnConscious Level”.
So to Circle around to where I started this- a key is whatever your view, the more Presence, the more integrated, and How you REALLY define “You” (is the you that does what you do the same “You” that works Magick?)- the key is not so much not working against your-self, but can you recognize what All_of_You is doing, reacting to, participating in the Working (or not)… get more of the_stream involved? -that’s just “2cents” of mine- luck to you[/quote]

The many streams into one flow. so u are saying ALL parts of me need to be for my working. there are currently parts of me that are not integrated into the flow of my magick and are trying to sabotage the outcome. i will meditate on this and make all of the parts flow into one. i feel just reading what u wrote is doing that for me by realizing this stream analogy.

so by me still being “attached” to it. thinking about it, means that i havent released all of the energy related to the spell.

the being more present thing i feel will help removing it from my mind because dwelling in it i zone out and think about it but the second i snap out of it and am present in myself to what i am doing right now whether it be typing this or sitting on my bed the thoughts go away.

and yes i have achieved results in the past with my magick. i need to get my streams together into one!

i feel like reading and re reading what u typed will help me alot and is the answer. thank you so much!

6

and also the reason that i have been having a hard time is because this specific work is a 7 day candle magick ritual. so its hard to let it go for today and then get back to doing it right the next day again and then letting go and then going back to it again. or maybe with this situation for the 7 days i should ONLY let it go on that last 7th day when i will not come bak to the specific ritual again.

7

Me too, I’ve noticed a few days later when I had already thought I failed and then just forgot about it completely , then some days pass and it comes to be. So def not thinking about (for me at least) makes the shit happen and pretty quick.

8

yea i feel also cuz this ritual is a 7 day one, my mind has been on it. its hard to let go when i have to get back to it the next day. i feel like on the last day it will be the easiest to let go

9

I believe your over thinking the 7day aspect of the spell. I often do 7-9 day spells. When you go back to the spell everyday you simply reaffirm your confidence in your working. You don’t have to forget about the spell itself but forget about the results. Focus during the working to the point where you no longer feel the desire. You should use all that desire during the ritual to the point you feel it is certain to happen. Afterwards take a nap, play a video game, or an instrument, hell masturbate as long as its anything that is going to require your complete attention so your not thinking about the ritual.

It’s ok to think about how you have blank many days left of your spell, that’s ok. Don’t think about if you did it right or if it is going to work, that is doubt and can lessen the results you get. If you find yourself pondering results remember that they are on their way and imagine the relief you’ll feel when you know it has come.

10

There is something about what you added (about this being a “7 day candle magick ritual” or more generalizing a Rite of many steps- recurring)- which is a concept I find more interesting than a Yes/No issue… that seems to be something that isn’t clear at all in our current systems of explanation (and a pressure to clarify the interpretation one-way or the other)- ties to EA’s comment about the Mystery.

  (reference Newsletter where EA wrote about burying a sigil to release and then about "what else do we bury?  Corpses - into a graveyard"  letting go.. and yet "a Rituals are like Secrets that you are Keeping"   -it is easy to read that literally and think it just means bury in ground drawn sigil- but the sigil as the energy of the Working... and bury/keep as a Secret... Turn them over to the Myst-ery.

 Anyway- there was another Forum response comment EA made about when doing a recurring work (someone saying when doing an evocation and planning to re-evoke... thinking in-between: and EA mentions about how that can mean it wasn't turned over- and thus to re-evoke.. I'm not recalling clearly- can view-read his posts here.  Just seems to relate, and a thread that has been in the back of my mind, per Sorcery-Development) 

Another related, is his comments in a few places about the Bk of Azazel (you mention 7 Day ritual- imagine 90 days, day after day, and not just a Sending, but a conversation and being physically with- it seems even more so)

… and yet if you were doing an interviewing Intensive with a Person (ie not “magical”) and you planning 1,2, or 3 hrs per day… some time prior to, and some time after… and yet the rest of the evening would be like “end of work day” although more a project. Argh I hate when I haveto use a great many words to try and describe what I mean and seems I’m just being confusing- but hopefully that makes sense.
same idea- if doing a project that is 7 days in a row- say only 15mins or 30mins a day (ie how long the candle rite is, or perhaps its only a few mins- just as a comparison)… if a few mins a day- say its a planning Skype Discussion of only a few mins, but very intense, or say Online Poker or such… Short burst of time and effort, First of Seven, Second of Seven Etc.

In short- if you were doing a recurring effort and it had nothing to do with Magickal acting, would it still have a distracting affect? Just food for thought- in case it adds, not to put these thoughts to your sit- this comment of mine is more a puzzling I’ve had.

Second- would it be different if you were doing a “recurring” working, but just knew it wasn’t done at end of Rite (and thus again next time, tomorrow, next wk, whatever), or you know it is done. -In other words- recurring, but if you didn’t know in advance it was going to be 7 days, or 45days or 90days, etc. Would that be different?

     And just to add to the multiple streams- "The Mind-Stream"  (which not only stacks up to a River, but goes deeper in depth), there is a difference between using Effort: gather and focus, and then "less-effort" to gather and focus, as opposed to "effort-less"...   and It then can gel and become a synergetic whole-   The Presence is being more "present" (not just in local space- but awake and alert, and sense of Size- "being willing to more fully engage in what is- whatever/however it is- the event as it is occurring") in the sense that being sleepdeprived, or slightly-drunk, or distracted (even if we try not to be), or "in a dream- on that automated state" vs Lucidity..  and Over Time we may Think: Now I am more present and more clear, smoothly at ease than I have been B4 (until the next jump where we think, what was I thinking- I thought I under-stood being more Awale and more Present, and I didn't have any idea... but now... until the next time)

===========
I’m glad what I wrote above might have inspired something in your own thoughts- I seem to be driven to write these msgs this eve-morning :slight_smile:

Just to clarify a slightly diff perspective: above you (OP: Amy) wrote-

" because dwelling in it i zone out and think about it but the second i snap out of it and am present in myself to what i am doing right now"

I’d say the being less present, and multiple streams- when you notice you have another focus in the back of your mind, and when you feel a zone-out, and when there is a snapping out of ABC and back to __ (actually zone-out is one of the “other” streams becoming more active- that’s still your mind, just that part is not connected to the personality-Ego, but to a “different” unit… snapping back, or zone-out- is when the Critical Mass of Attention focus shifts between them.
-distinction being when they merge- you can sense your mind is “thinking” of multiple things (like a handful of Monitor-Screens all playing at once- you are aware of all, but more focused upon one or the other, with more “mind” you have more Consciousness and thus can focus less on something and still be aware, vs having less Con-Presence and if you don’t focus nearly all of your Attention on something one spaces out or loses connection to it.
Thus as this is developed there is “more space” so to speak (and in Social interaction, as well as in Physical Presence, and Most of All in a MagickalWorking- where one is “Coming From” Mind (as opposed to mind) becomes bigger (like Attn was a soft glow, then becomes a bright flashlight, then can become Halogen, as well as the focused intensity of Sunlight through a magnifying glass- that Pt… that focus influences just as a result of its focus)

The Sense of the Answer of the Question (Who am I? or “What am I?” or best of all “HOW am I?” as that is felt-realized differently, that changes one’s physical Presence and Impact… and most of all to recognize that there are more and more things that one is aware of happening, without being clear what they are (the idea is not to get rid of the “unconscious” but to integrate- and learn to act and re-act/interp from the Mind that is aware of the “unconscious” as well as the conscious-mind, the “thought-puppet character” can sense that there are things that part of one’s attention is sensing and thinking about- but not parts of the “usual-thinking-mind”… and you have opened up more MindAwareness so you have “room to spare” so to speak.

I hope that isn't too rambly  (I have a pact to try and only express when I'm sure I've added something and added as much as poss- and to have layers to it- so as a result I do fewer posts, and they oft seem to pack many ideas vs having one a couple of ideas per).

Best wishes- I think/have found/I-know that when one asks the kind of question that this is, one can find threads that allow you to travel a path deeper into the Labyrinth, and reveal not an answer to merely-this or that, but Expansion of Capacities them selves Some others that encounter this issue may just respond- this is too complicated a question, or don’t think about it, focus just on the surface- which is Ok, but Embodiment of our Being (not just in Experience, but Mastery of Enviro) isn’t just straightfwd.

((and as a result Magick-Al Currents draw related event-expers into your path- and you may seem the “Window” Re-Veal)) Luck

11

I don’t do many rituals these days, usually just call up a demon here and there to keep everything going in a way that I desire. Back in the day when I was doing rituals for baneful magick I would get myself enraged to the point where the energy could not be contained within my physical form and then I would use that to strengthen the ritual, afterwards my mind would be completely drained of all feelings toward that person. If I never did happen to see them out in public there would be a sort of spiritual barrier between me and them because I knew they were going to die very soon, I didn’t really care though because I had exhausted my feeling towards it. Basically you need to do one ritual instead of seven, then make sure you are exhausting your feelings toward the goal. Imagine the ritual as fire that you care calling up from the depths of hell and imagine your emotions toward the goal as fuel, pour them into the fire until they are no more… Afterwards go do something like watch porn or blast some amon amarth, you wont even care about the goal anymore.

12

You know,

Sometimes this world is so fucked up that i get massive disatachment and the ritual is a success on the outcome.
(I go play some videogame after the ritual, and im like ‘fuck this world’)

13

[quote author=TheWanderingFool link=topic=864.msg11411#msg11411 date=1361370594]
I believe your over thinking the 7day aspect of the spell. I often do 7-9 day spells. When you go back to the spell everyday you simply reaffirm your confidence in your working. You don’t have to forget about the spell itself but forget about the results. Focus during the working to the point where you no longer feel the desire. You should use all that desire during the ritual to the point you feel it is certain to happen. Afterwards take a nap, play a video game, or an instrument, hell masturbate as long as its anything that is going to require your complete attention so your not thinking about the ritual.

It’s ok to think about how you have blank many days left of your spell, that’s ok. Don’t think about if you did it right or if it is going to work, that is doubt and can lessen the results you get. If you find yourself pondering results remember that they are on their way and imagine the relief you’ll feel when you know it has come.
[/quote

thank you so much! i feel like reading these comments alone is helping me with my confidence and its making me realize how i have to be. thank you!! great advice!

14

i feel like you are right. but since i am already a few days in i feel like i shouldnt abandon the spell. this will be a lesson learned for me