[quote=“AlexW, post:19, topic:4178”]Interesting thread. This is the way I do it:
In order to interact with spirits, all that is needed is to know or pretend that we are also a spirit. Rapture, trance, theta-gamma sync or self-hypnosis are just names to describe the transition from a mode of perception based on physical sense stimuli to a psychic perception based on psychic senses.[/quote]
exactly. you nailed it.
that i think is the root of not being able to get it down. whenever i have conjured, pushing for something to happen it never happens. i always got my best results in magick by ignoring what was proper and even by jettisoning my ritual ideas midritual and winging it. i basically just call the spirit and then i feel them around me, then we speak and that’s it. even if i don’t hear them i know they’re there. i just know, you feel it, and things around you get vivid, the air feels different, it just does. it comes to you of its own accord when you give up the lust for result. i have been guilty of trying to force it to happen or to speed up, but it is like trying to grab a mist, it will evaporate. but if you let it condense, it forms.
that’s EXACTLY what i mean by flow. the only difference is that i said do it with visual or auditory means, but you do it with kinesthetic. it’s the same thing just a different vak modality. and from there, submodalize and go further into it until your intuition (genius) kicks in and there ya go.
kids do this naturally until they’re about 5 years old, they call it pretend as if. if you’ve ever played as if with a kid and they say, ‘i’m a pirate!’ they then start talking to invisible friends as if they can hear them. or if they play with their toys, they hold full conversations! they might even ask you if you saw or heard what they saw or heard. and if you are playing along, YOU DO! it’s crazy because we all think kids are making this shit up, but they’re not, their imaginations really do come alive and that’s exactly what flow is.
there you go, you said it all.
but also what CAN be there but isn’t there yet. see, we live in three dimensions, but the fourth dimension is time. so there are future objects that are not yet seen, or past ones that are no longer there. and in flow, those things can be accessed.
from what i understand about flow, it’s not really so much a state, more an intensification. we’re always in a state, but trance is built on changing a state by modifying things. flow is more about being really present in the state you’re already in, to the degree of it becoming vivid and alive, and letting the energy of the universe around us communicate directly with us. it’s a different way of being than passive trancework, it’s more interactive intercommunication and less of taking and acting upon given suggestions.
the way you do it seems to be different than erik’s way. he says he pushes through a fugue state, which may imply effort, but your way is more of almost plugging into the ayres around you. it’s just a connection, really. calling out, and drawing in at the same time, connection and attraction, not so much of effort but more of just being in the moment fully.
that is exactly what submodalizing is. just asking yourself questions about the object, and notice details in passes.
when i combined autogenic training with the sunnen trance scale, i did the entire autogenic training protocol as i have it on this site, and then i did the sunnen trance scale. as i did the sunnen trance scale, my mind went REALLY quiet. there is a part of the sunnen trance where you quiet your emotions, and another part where you imagine your body growing larger than the room you are in. when i did those parts as autogenic commands, the quality of the room changed. it felt like everything in the room turned into waves. like nothing was really real, but a sim or a videogame.
from there, i asked what do i see? and i saw a light shining in midair. and then i asked, what is the shape? and i saw a cube. it took about 3 minutes of asking, but i clearly saw light shining off of a cube on the ground. i just kept submodalizing and the cube got clearer and clearer, it was clear like water but the light was shining off of it like it was very highly polished. keep in mind i was not evoking anyone or anything, i was just testing out the at/sunnen trance scale to see if anything would happen and IT DID. i was not in trance, i wasn’t in a dark room either. i was in a mall food court and it was midday. i was also surrounded by people, and i was reading the commands off of a piece of paper. it still worked. my eyes were wide open and i wasn’t in any sort of trance at all, i was fully conscious and fully aware of the whole thing. it was also not dead quiet, all around me people were talking and making noise, but somehow i didn’t hear or pay attention to ANY of them! the command order in sunnen trance is very important for getting into the flow.
when the object or person comes in, you begin to see it slowly, it looks invisible. it’s almost like you are seeing light reflect off of them, but not quite the object or person. however, the more you do this without rushing, the more you begin to see them and they come in clearer. it’s almost like you are drawing them into your reality with autocad by decreasing the transparency from 100% to 0%.
it’s completely unlike any trance state i’ve ever been in. erik says you push through it with great force, but i found that you don’t push into it at all, instead you immerse yourself into it and it builds around you.
that is the final step and that’s when you’re there.
Best is to train it with closed eyes first. Then with open eyes in a darkened room. And in the end in a dark room with two candles.[/quote]
yeah you have to train it to get it down