The Psychology Of Black Magick

Black Magick & The Left Hand Path
21

First of all I’d like to thank Timothy and everyone who contributed to this thread. There is so much good information for those deciding which path if any is right for them.

I agree with much of what Timothy said and think it applies to magicians of all paths. What I took from the article is that the LHP is about finding one’s own Godhood, many things that we cling to as humans must be shed because they are not traits or attributes of a god. The same can be said of the RHP where internal enlightenment and inner divinity is the goal.

I don’t agree with the role the ego plays in the LHP, to me the ego is something that should be overcome. One can have confidence in themselves without the ego inflating false ideas. No one lies to us more than ourselves. We tell ourselves things that comfort us and prevent us from seeing who we really are, what about ourselves is truly holding us back, what we really fear and what we really want.

I agree with many others hear who refuse to apply a title to their path as it can be limiting. Why not cultivate your abilities to kill and cure, to give and take, to bless and curse? Simply do what feels right to you, learn all you can and don’t be afraid to experiment.

I’d again like to thank Timothy for posting the article, I hope to see more like them.

22

This pretty much sums up a lot of my thinking for a long time. I’ve definitely noticed the scarcity of truly hardcore black magicians, I’m the only one I’ve ever met in person haha.

23

This is a priceless article Mr. Timothy,Thank you.

24

Hi all.

I would agree whole heartedly, for myself personally and how I follow my own Path, that the Ego should be overcome. One of my all time favourite movies, Revolver, demonstrates this perfectly for how damaging the Ego is and can be.

At the same time, I do not personally view Timothy’s presentation here, as a “LHP Ego” because I don’t believe the contents of his discussion is in any way “disillusioned” or “grandeur”. I find it quite the opposite in fact (for myself anyway) - BALLSY, instead of egotistical, and rawly honest, all of which I certainly appreciate in such a discussion.

25

[quote=“Zoe, post:6, topic:191”]A very interesting argument, Sultitan-Itan, and obviously well thought out…Hmm

My own position is somewhat different:

I’m looking at the entire piece as a whole, general idea. Do I agree with each & every principle or value he puts forth? NO! My mind is my own! But, having said that, I also say I really like it. Let me back up a bit …

Timothy is an Instigator - a Catalyst - and a rather brilliant one. Using his outrageous extremes in such a bold, “in your face” way forces the reader to do one of two things:

(1) Curl up in the fetal position on the floor from the blast, or -
(2) really, Really, REALLY THINK! Examine what you believe, assume and/or accept as true … and WHY.

This body of Work does that in spades. And THATS what I like about it.

Timothy has provoked me to deep self examination… :wink: Z [/quote]

I’ve not yet curled up in the fetal position, and his post did make me start to think.

I have to agree on several points of his. The most important being liberty, the liberty to be able to think for yourself, take care of yourself in a healthy way, which ultimately helps others in a time of need, and that time might be now.

I am not a hateful person at nature either, but if someone needs help I am willing to help in any way that I can that does not reduce my power or ability to continue bettering my life. Not to mention, if someone is out to hurt me or those that I love, and it cannot be resolved in a peaceful manner, then … well, it then boiks down to fire for fire, doesnt it? After all, if someone is so bent on harming others for pleasure, then I view that as evil, and I have seen evil from several groups in society on our planet. Some of those that are hurting others deem themselves as good.

I must say, I would like to invoke both sides and not become a coffee talk group, but get to know each side, and find the answers that I am interested in, or that may be the way to get at what I or others need.

I dont know what to say other than it influences me to rethink my life and society as a whole and compare it to what I see as necessary in my life while removing labels of good and evil, and perhaps redefining those labels.

I dont know that complete anarchy and battles to the death are the solution I want to see, as thats kind of whats happening to the world today. If you want a better world in the way you see it, if I want or need to, then we have to take action it would seem to me.

I really need to rethink and get my eBook tomorrow (not able to do today).

Thanks Timothy and others who also responded, many of you have made great points, thanks again Timothy, a much needed demand to rethink myself and the world I see vs what I want it to be. Even if that means to provide people the liberty to exercise the life they have in the manner they want, while I produce the unicorn assembley line and fairy dust vitamin water. After all, if that is what I view as needed, it would seem to me that both are viable money makers as well.
Just kidding :slight_smile: I really enjoyed the post Timothy, and it does require me to rethink and act as well.

James Del Fuego

26

I do have a question here – why wanton or controlled drug use in order to further results from scorcery?

Having taken a variety of different drugs in my life, pot is about the only one besides a prescrption drug or two that I take, and the pot is extremely rare these days even though my card should allow me to use it as I choose just like a prescription drug.

However, drugs are not the only way to induce an altered state.

Fitness/exercise to exhaustion and more immediate fitness/exercise, provided you’re not weak enough to do anything for ritual, it can create an altered state.

Lack of sleep/change in sleep patterns. Okay, I cheat on this since I’m a caffiene junkie via coffee anyway, but the other night I was viewing the post about the enochian tablet. Viewing the tablet did create an effect, but because I was already in an altered state. I’m still in a bit of an effect, but over the week doing my usual routine, I’ll see what I say then on that.

Natural substances – nutmeg, cocoa, etc. Weak as crap but enough over time can alter you a bit.

I could be blowing complete copal smoke here, but my point is why the emphasis on drugs to open psychic vision or be the ultimate black magician? It seems contrary to being anti-government. Anyone remember when the Iran Contra scandal occurred? There seemed to be automatic boom of coke on the street where is was scant before. I’ve never done it and dont want to, but I wasnt and am not blind either. Point is, the controlled substances seem to appear at the right time on the street during turbulent world times. If it was due to the powers that be, wouldnt taking them in order to be independent be a contradiction?

Thanks,

James

27

Well, ego is nothing static. What most people call or think their ego is, is basically a bunch of opinions about themselves they accumulated over time. What magick does is, it slowly destroys the boundaries between what you believe to be, and the remainder of existence. With the goal of giving you the knowledge, not belief, not vague intuition, but sure knowledge, that you are everything. Obviously, the development of that understanding is a process. And there is no cheating, or outsourcing of your conscious growth. So it doesn’t really make sense to try to get rid of the ego, when it hasn’t been transcended yet. And any doctrine or path or school of thought that doesn’t acknowledge the importance of ego as a training mechanism, but instead pushes the student into conformity with ideas they themselves don’t really understand, is doing it the wrong way I think. So weather LHP or not, the most important thing is to be authentic, and to think for yourself in my opinion.

1 Like
28

There is no white or black magic.
There is only magic.
People get too wrapped up in limiting definitions of something that is limitless.
Why are people always so eager to box themselves inside self limiting definitions?
You really have to step outside that box if you truly ever want to get anywhere.
Enough of the morality play already.

29

[quote=“DGLN, post:28, topic:191”]There is no white or black magic.
There is only magic.[/quote]

Blah.

A hackneyed, redundant, observation.

Also, irrelevant.

My essay is not on the neutral existentialism of magick. It’s on the distinctions of personal philosophy and values therein.

Try again.

“An unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates

The greatest philosopher of all time thinks you are a waste of life.

30

Definitions

Hackneyed - lacking in freshness or originality

Redundant - characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary

Sounds like you are describing your own essay than my small retort.
I guess irrelevant is in the eye of the beholder?

31

Is there anything new under the sun? Everything which has been said and done has been said and done but only by exploring a things meaning in a specific time and place as it relates to us does it become meaningful and a part of ‘our’ story. Am I a good man who does bad things or a bad man who does good deeds? Both. Good and Evil do exist. Powers and principalities who embody destruction or benificance do exist and can be made allies. Does an angel or a demon worry about whether it is good or evil?

In Luke Rheinhards book The Dice Man he parodies modern views on transcending good and evil with the character who is a murderer and rapist who sees an analyst due to his anxiety over his kills. He declares himself cured when he stops worrying over his murderous behaviour. We must allways reflect on the morality of our actions. The man who acts with full intention is my view of the enlightened man. Acting out of Your wish not the projected wishes of others.

A final point. We should encourage thinking and debate on this forum. I assesrt my right to talk shit or be irrelevant or ireverent. So should you all.

32

I liked this whole essay a lot and felt empowered by it. That said, with great respect you sure seem to be seeing a lot of possible obstacles being imposed on you from outside, and there are ways of busting open that paradigm.

Has anyone else here got an interest in the New Thought movement, which at its heart of hearts, below the cheesy books about how to “manifest” things by chanting affirmations etc, contends that each living being is ONE with the Source, the highest non-personality-based limitless godform, and that everyone and everything we meet, we have actually manifested into our own lives for a purpose of some kind, coming either from the positive drive to grow, or the fear-based drive to retain and harden our current beliefs?

Under that paradigm, the limiting forces you refer to in your opening post are all your own creations, so for a start, you’re already far more powerful than you think, and subject to the whim of no masters or external forces at all. The work for you (all of us) is to see these things for what they are, work out what the gift from them for us was, and then move past the need for them.

I find a lot of that stuff, I’m thinking Joe Vitale’s book “The Key” & CD set “The Abundance Paradigm” and pretty much everything David Neagle writes (he has a website and bases his stuff on the Kybalion) transcends the possibility of there being any external “them” who are out to get you, or limit you… they’re just aspects of your own former beliefs system in which you were a “thing bobbing haplessly in a world of things” and not a true Creator, operating from Source, for whom the world is like the colours a prism creates, but you’re the pure white light that shines through the prism (the prism being your own beliefs, and its solid mass is mistaken for “reality” by other people).

For example Neagle had one post replying to someone whose mother had died, that she manifested this loss herself and that it was a positive thing - now, I haven’t seen many kickass black mages online talk openly that someone would kill their own mother for a reason, and that really, that “mother” was an aspect of themselves that was holding them back, this stuff is pretty remorseless to the sentimental side of stuff and it looks way beyond conventional ideas about right, wrong, and the possibility anything exists in your world which can limit you.

I have a big interest in that stuff past the cheese and the stuff based on the work ethic, like some of Nap Hill’s work (I don’t like to work for anyone but myself) and it’s coming at me fast and furious now (finding books and happening across good stuff online) hand in hand with my embracing my own “left-hand” path towards becoming a god.

Hope this isn’t too off-topic but I’m really getting a boost to my own practice now from that kind of teaching, in terms of healing from past hurts (deaths, rejections, the usual crud, coming into focus as good things that happened to free me up), having other people react in the ways I want, and also just plain getting me some material things I want, and I’d be interested to know if anyone else is combining it with their practices?

It offers a way to assume total power and see past the perceived limitations of the baby carriage in the hallway, or the men in black coming to get you. Be interested to hear your thoughts on this?

33

What is wrong with having LOTS of personal power? Mastery of the Yoga Siddha powers, energy, chakras, elemental magic.
There is a well known fact in Texas that in towns that REQUIRE people to own a gun, the crime rate is actually lower.
(If you have a million ‘’‘lucifers’’’ , or people trying to control others, then you essential have 0 lucifers.) It is called ‘checks and balances’. And that is life.
The golden rule, "do onto others what you want done to you."
Knowledge is power.
Religion hates what I just said. I KNOW.
Psychic school Santa Rosa California. Sitting in a line doing a reading. Mexican lady sitting in the middle of the ‘line’ reading people.
A leader says to me, "You’ re on the hot seat."
I sit in front of the ‘reader’. She says with eyes closed, “I know what he knows. I can’t control him.” (This school is a holy word, cross, church.)
This was back in 2007, around January.
And I would do the psychic school again. The only ‘christian’ institute that ever gave me anything ‘’‘spiritual’’’ for my money. Most others call all of this hindu, buddhist, yoga, psychic, kundalini stuff ‘’‘the devil’’’. "She saw Buddha in hell. And before he died, he said, ’ I have not found the way’. " (northern california church quote).
‘THE BLASPHEMY OF THE HOLY GHOST INSTITUTE’. Christianity.
So I left. “And you came out alone”, a psychic tells me.
While the ‘hypocrites’ were preaching it, “You need to get off that religion”, I practiced it and left.
There is a philosophy called ‘philanthropy’ that states that a person’s positive works must balance out the negative works, if one wants to have power.
I like what Heath Ledger said in the movie The Order.
"And now it is I. I have been blessed, and cursed, for now I possess the keys to the kingdom of heaven. I will forgive those that deserve freedom. I will damn those who damn themselves. I will learn to live after love has died. I am the Sin Eater."
Great article man.

34

That’s a really short & simple version of what I was getting at above.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying no-one and nothing can ever hurt me, if I believed that I’d go right now and drink all the interesting bottles under the sink with the poison warnings on coz I iz so badass with my powah… :o) I mean I am in touch with the basic reality and the rules it has, and not off on some mad trip of omnipotence - for example, I believe things happen through established channels and all that stuff.

But I find it empowering to see external threats to things I want to be, do, or have as stemming ultimately from myself, so Timothy, if you have time/inclination to reply, have you explored this idea with regards to the stuff you mentioned in your OP, and did it take you anywhere useful?

I got myself out of what could have been a major hassle with a government body by using this paradigm and that’s why I’m talking about it, because it seemed to work, and I could totally see how I’d manifested the hassle in the first place once I looked at it that way.

35

We put ourselves in those hassles and we get ourselves out of them (hopefully). Those that would want us ignorant and dependent on them (like religion) are just out to steal our money, energy, resources, and leave us for the worms. “They hide the keys of knowledge. They refuse to enter, and those of us trying to enter, they hinder.” (personalizing the christian new testament quote.)
They make their dung look good until they got someone, then they ruin them.
Sheep lure you in, wolves devour you. "Born in sin, come on in."
A lot of us are waking up enough to reject their offer.
As Wayne Dyer says, “When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” He and others say that there is a science to this. We change our thinking and intent, and the physical and spiritual universe moleculerly responds.
My suspicion is that the ‘dark powers’ that rule this world want us to know this stuff so we will know what is expected of us when they take over completely in the open. Can’t having us be too stupid, ignorant, etc. We would be totally useless to them.
Just a possibility to be aware of. Maybe we can use that against them.

36

First and foremost, the post of Timothy is so far a Prologue for a book. Dinamicly wrote and pushing fordwards some interesting ideas, most of the part of the experiences behind the path of the begginers and the concepts behind of what this is all about. Now Interesting post from Sultitan too, and Im agree and disagree with Both ( Timothy and Sultitan in some topics that leads me to some speculative thoughts )

[quote=“anon31277086, post:5, topic:191”]I disagree.

Nothing has a fixed and definite value, and all relations fluctuate. If you carve out categories of abstractions and say these abstractions are the truth that the chosen few adhere to and those abstractions are evil that must be attacked and repudiated, you’re just performing a contrarian inversion of the dominant culture. You’re still playing the culture game.[/quote]

Thats a point and a touche , but in a different approach, I might say. ( I would not like to contaminate my opinion with “my” vision of Black Magick, cause
will loose objetivity of the post, wich is INTERESTING )

Is religion in a theistic approach if you take the approach of ALL IS ONE. Wich is truth. Both sides.
BUT IS TOTALLY SCIENCE because u can perform rituals or “commands in a computer” and get results, that can be repetitive. Documented,
probed, at least by the magician itself.

Theres a big problem here with the word “Evolution”. you are talking about a evolution of reality without deterministics. Cause is theres “superiors beings”
to reach the real godlike powers and others dont , so this is prefabricated before. So theres no mutation, just moving on the chain of life/death to reach
a certain preterit goal. Traditional Kabbalits for example, explain kabbalah in a deterministic way, supporting evolution, If you dont belong of the 600.000 parts
of Adam Kadmon ure a “low quality spirit”. So ASCENT is the best word instead of evolution. If not, write a book called “Magick for Darwinians”.

Probably theres gods who feel comfortable to run a street where exists a dimentional portal to reach others places. This not make the magician “minor” or
“less powerful”. But powerful, street and empire in what terms? in terms of SIZE or in terms of REALIZATION?

true in some point, but nevertheless, we are inserted inside a construct wich is the world. if you define “not to fall into” in terms of pass throguht that impediments to reach certain goal is completly accurate.

Sometimes push further a “straight to goals magick” can generate some rispid exchange, wich is constructive in many forms. Some of us were more related
to the philosophical approach of magick and entering practical full operational magick needs “thing to be done” and some times reduce the part of the ego
connected to the dogmatic forms of thoughts, present in many old magic books.

37

[quote=“Timothy, post:29, topic:191”][quote=“DGLN, post:28, topic:191”]There is no white or black magic.
There is only magic.[/quote]

Blah.

A hackneyed, redundant, observation.

Also, irrelevant.

My essay is not on the neutral existentialism of magick. It’s on the distinctions of personal philosophy and values therein.

Try again.

“An unexamined life is not worth living.” - Socrates

The greatest philosopher of all time thinks you are a waste of life.[/quote]

My third person view :

Let see the Timothy post of something MORE than a thought spreading on the forum, this thread shows too the actual state of the forum, this community, reactions, rejections, aceptance and if the forum is healthy, and many other things too…

38

This assessment of the psychology of the archetypal black magician left me a little cold. From my point of view an individual with a complete obsession with their own personal power, points of view and self advancement is an extremely boring person. They don’t give, they don’t share, they cant cope with normal human relationships, they live in a little bubble of self interest. So what if they cavort with some of the most powerful demons - as human beings they are cold selfish and charmless. People like that may have spirit pals but they die really lonely.

Give me a person who is sociable, kind, generous and giving, who has concept of society, family and his duty to help make all of those a better and kinder place. Give me a man who can sire and FATHER children as well as be a fabulous husband because he has the social skills to maintain successful long term relationships. He is the truly powerful man. Combine that with a work ethic to improve himself and his magical ability - and an iron will to defend all that he loves and believes in - that kind of person I warm to.

The psychology of the black magician just comes across as a sulky selfish teenager who has yet to develop as a fully warm and giving human being. They just come across as mean and stunted a bit like the Nazis with all their obsession with natural selection and the biggest bully being the most successful in evolutionary terms.

I think there is a balance in life and no one is an island unto themselves. If people start getting all obsessed with themselves and their personal advancement and forget that we are social beings with duties to one another, then we lose something in the process, no matter how “successful” we consider ourselves to be in magical terms.

39

[quote=“Albany, post:38, topic:191”]This assessment of the psychology of the archetypal black magician left me a little cold. From my point of view an individual with a complete obsession with their own personal power, points of view and self advancement is an extremely boring person. They don’t give, they don’t share, they cant cope with normal human relationships, they live in a little bubble of self interest. So what if they cavort with some of the most powerful demons - as human beings they are cold selfish and charmless. People like that may have spirit pals but they die really lonely.

Give me a person who is sociable, kind, generous and giving, who has concept of society, family and his duty to help make all of those a better and kinder place. Give me a man who can sire and FATHER children as well as be a fabulous husband because he has the social skills to maintain successful long term relationships. He is the truly powerful man. Combine that with a work ethic to improve himself and his magical ability - and an iron will to defend all that he loves and believes in - that kind of person I warm to.

The psychology of the black magician just comes across as a sulky selfish teenager who has yet to develop as a fully warm and giving human being. They just come across as mean and stunted a bit like the Nazis with all their obsession with natural selection and the biggest bully being the most successful in evolutionary terms.

I think there is a balance in life and no one is an island unto themselves. If people start getting all obsessed with themselves and their personal advancement and forget that we are social beings with duties to one another, then we lose something in the process, no matter how “successful” we consider ourselves to be in magical terms.[/quote]
I think the balance falls far before where you say it does. There is a stark contrast between what a black magician says and what he thinks/does. He is social and has the appearance of being like everyone else in his circle because that makes it easier to enact his will. If he is altruistic it is usually on a whim and not out of moralistic obligation to his fellow man. Just as the the sulky teenager is seriously delude and naive in his way of thinking, you show me such an individual as you make reference to and who actually believes the words he says and I’ll show you a sheep in wolf’s clothing.

40

[quote=“Icarus, post:39, topic:191”][quote=“Albany, post:38, topic:191”]This assessment of the psychology of the archetypal black magician left me a little cold. From my point of view an individual with a complete obsession with their own personal power, points of view and self advancement is an extremely boring person. They don’t give, they don’t share, they cant cope with normal human relationships, they live in a little bubble of self interest. So what if they cavort with some of the most powerful demons - as human beings they are cold selfish and charmless. People like that may have spirit pals but they die really lonely.

Give me a person who is sociable, kind, generous and giving, who has concept of society, family and his duty to help make all of those a better and kinder place. Give me a man who can sire and FATHER children as well as be a fabulous husband because he has the social skills to maintain successful long term relationships. He is the truly powerful man. Combine that with a work ethic to improve himself and his magical ability - and an iron will to defend all that he loves and believes in - that kind of person I warm to.

The psychology of the black magician just comes across as a sulky selfish teenager who has yet to develop as a fully warm and giving human being. They just come across as mean and stunted a bit like the Nazis with all their obsession with natural selection and the biggest bully being the most successful in evolutionary terms.

I think there is a balance in life and no one is an island unto themselves. If people start getting all obsessed with themselves and their personal advancement and forget that we are social beings with duties to one another, then we lose something in the process, no matter how “successful” we consider ourselves to be in magical terms.[/quote]
I think the balance falls far before where you say it does. There is a stark contrast between what a black magician says and what he thinks/does. He is social and has the appearance of being like everyone else in his circle because that makes it easier to enact his will. If he is altruistic it is usually on a whim and not out of moralistic obligation to his fellow man. Just as the the sulky teenager is seriously delude and naive in his way of thinking, you show me such an individual as you make reference to and who actually believes the words he says and I’ll show you a sheep in wolf’s clothing.[/quote]

I see what you are saying but truly the most obvious way to find out whether someone is genuine or not is to look at the effect that they have on those around them and on the legacy of their life. An extremely powerful but ultimately mean and selfish little person will not be missed but someone who is powerful and on their death they leave behind a virtual community of people whose lives that they have affected.

People sense whether someone speaks words that they don’t mean. People instinctively shy away from fakes, game players and those who harbour malice beneath a smile. As for black magician, white magician etc, I think a truly powerful person is not defined by a colour - they are so much bigger than that.

EA Koetting is a whole lot more than a man who spends his time nurturing his own personal power, being malevolent and just looking after himself. I am pretty sure of that. That is why his work appeals and why he manages to be a loving Dad as well as a magician :slight_smile:

1 Like