The need for justification

General Discussion
1

I 've noticed as I get more and more into my own path and take more interest in the darker side of the magical path, that I tend to try to justify anything I do, think of doing or want to do with it. For example money I think can be justified by a need to pay bills, and get out of debts and I make sure it’s clear why that is needed for the greater good. I need people out of my life and I make sure it’s clear to myself at least exactly WHY they need to be out of it. I realize that even here on these boards I make it clear that I need a result for a morally decent reason. Yet at the same time on the same boards we have members who seem to have called on powerful demons to go and destroy an enemy, and these members don’t seem to need to justify it fully.
I’m not saying this is bad of course. Quite the opposite. I find this darker side fascinating and powerful and promising. Perhaps the right words here would be… alluring. I feel like I might not know how to approach this far more left handed path. Am I being too kind, to considerate, too concerned with making sure I harm none? Are “because I can?” or “because I want it?” or “because I deserve an advantage of won in life,” really the only justifications anyone needs?

I’m curious here about your views and opinions of this. How are things justified? Do we need to bother to justify a damn thing?

2

I don’t think that we need, its a social programming that things would need justification. We actually should tell people that things need to be justified for the sake of ourselves, because if everyone understood that there is no karma and they can do anything world would go into too much chaos.

I justify things by saying that there is no good or bad in that sense, but then again i’m a psychopath narcissist weirdo :smiley:

This does not mean that we shouldn’t do good things too, or that good things couldn’t make us feel good also - or that we should do anything, bad , good, neutral… uwh we just do what we do.

3

Doing evil for the sake of evil isn’t good for the soul. It leads to a lot more baggage that will stick with you after death and makes a whole mess. I’m not trying to preach this “DO GOOD OR BURN IN HELL” xtian stuff either. But by focusing all your energy on negative stuff, you will begin attracting negative things into your life. It seems alluring, but those people who give in to it tend to be of weak character, weak mind, and have shitty lives in general. Also take in the fact that 99% people here are beginners, so they shouldn’t be your rolemodels in the first place.

I’m not going to curse someone without justification, not just for the above reasons, but also because I simply have better things to do with my life. Don’t be a loser and curse at the drop of pin.

4

Justification does not exist, but in human rules. My point is that these are abstract concepts… These death curses cannot be justified or un-justified - if they can, what kind of scale are we using on it? There cannot be good,evil, and justified if there is no norm where it is compared and measured. And i don’t think there is any, so do what you feel - is the ending going to be good or bad? is there ending? what is there… That is left to see.

5

I use terms good and evil to refer to actions that generate more negativity and/or positivity, in terms of energy.
You can try and side step it however you’d like, but the fact remains that obsessing over negative energy and emotions will breed the same. It’s an unhappy existence. Focus on anger, sorrow, pain, etc. will only attract it. As a practitioner, you ought to know this. When you want to draw something, what do you do? You focus and focus and focus on it. When you want to fuck someone, you recall how flesh feels against flesh, the butterflies in the stomach, the heat of passion etc. That is how you focus your intention. This applies just as much to negative emotions as to positive.

And when you simply start doing curses for the lolz, all you’re doing is focusing on that negativity.

And as someone who works with the dead, I am familiar with what can happen to those kinds of individuals after death. That’s why elevation work exists in the first place, to help human souls out of negative bindings on the soul.

6

Well by no means i would advocate focusing on negative feelings, as that is even biologically bad for it releases stress hormones and destroys good stuff like DHT/testosterone just for an example.

I kinda like the mixture between anger and euphoria thought.

The purpose was not anyways to encourage to do only negative things, but just to point out that i don’t believe they need to be justified… I never claimed that it would be good for everyone to do so.

7

Justification is usually what stops people from falling into that trap. If there is no justification, hey why the fuck not?

8

I would argue a different viewpt: becoming ‘a power’ one doesn’t justify, nor does one lack a justification (either saying: I’m doing it because XYZ- tells a story as if others would excuse it, or saying I don’t need to explain… implies a whim, or a defensiveness- as if one senses they need to justify, thus justify why they aren’t justifying :slight_smile:

 Just as one has preferences of food-  neither saying I like ABC food "just because" nor saying I like ABC food because it means that.. or I earned that right to it...    rather one's preference- if one can Recognize a true-tendency (and only in very-few things do we have a true-tendency, an Aspect of out Selves...  nearly all is subconscious ripples, programming...   is one acting per "in order to"  (obviously I need to __ per my goal), or is one acting per a "whim" .. the trickling to the surface sub-con programs..  advertizing-jingles..  gestalt-similarities from childhood.. myths of "how things work")


As an example, in terms of "direct-action" arena, the 'choice' is made in terms of violence.. when it is "justified" to lay-hands upon?  (and yet professional-training should bring to mind how things could "escalate"- uncertainty and exposure to risk.. "the principle(s)" and the situation.. espec if done in the 'private sector'...   thus once it begins, you don't know where it will end-  so to act is never 'ok' but it may be chosen (not "necessary"- choice), just as to submit- even receive assault may be "chosen" (again not 'required')....  

  Being A Power (one acts- and any sense of wanting to see "this is the situation" so therefore... is just saying the Mind wants to stop, cut off and give an excuse..  while "presence" doesn't end, there is no self-description XYZ is happening..  it is live)..  thus you act, (including staying still- that being an action- vs saying "not act" there is no non-action, just as an "indecision IS a decision".. but it isn't a one-time thing: I chose. -the situation continues, and the next moment- one "continues" to act.. the choice continues- live.)

Thus what to do- there is a temptation to say- this is why I’m doing what I’m doing (mind wanting to cut things off, saying it happened, my explaining why- separates me from it)… but also saying “I don’t need to justify” also separate, it “happened” just is… -to tie to the physical-interaction with force, never excusable, to not, nor to do…

So the decision is ‘where’ one’s actions arise from [is it just the personality, the subconscious pattern randomness… some set of “fixed principles” measured against… or the Flow of Tao- the energy of the moment (required lvl of Realization- to See what sees through the Self) … I think that is the question- what is choosing? how is it justifying to (or not), some Freudian-Inner-Adult-SuperCon as a voice in the head, or being driven by the Inner-Child-rebel-Assertion…
…
Brings to mind the metaphor of a Sailing ship- where every few hours dice are rolled, and depending upon the #rolled, a different person takes the Helm as Captain… thus changes course… (it may seem the ship goes one-way, and then the other, and then back again… "NewYrsResolution? -addiction? could this be seen as one Voice wanting XYZ, and then another taken control…
-if one takes charge and holds command- shouting down any others that seek to become Cptn (oft the idea of just keep your resolution- “commit” to a decision)… still which one is in charge… [is there an underlying sense of the Entire-Ship, the Complete-Crew as one? or what makes the Self- the before/during/after, the younger and older- is there a continuity of what you’d want? or is it only what is “decided” at the moment?

Luther Seeks Alice’s Advice - Luther Preview - Episode 3 - BBC One

9

[quote=“Euoi, post:3, topic:4948”]Doing evil for the sake of evil isn’t good for the soul. It leads to a lot more baggage that will stick with you after death and makes a whole mess.

…Don’t be a loser and curse at the drop of pin.[/quote]

I’ve seen that as well, Euoi is absolutely right - do what you will, but know that the person you choose to become by going that route will have a different fate to the person who chooses differently.

Also, someone who’s running round flinging curses is in a constant state of reaction to other people, like a well-trained dog whose actions can be prompted by the snap of its trainers fingers.

I have a code of ethics for myself which helps me to decide what’s acceptable, and what isn’t. If you’re interested in LHP as in “No gods, no gurus” (I mean, I have gods, but not in a religious sense) then it’s a good idea to run a check on every area in your life where you may have been out of integrity with what you really believe, and see how often you violated your own ethics due to weakness, expediency, or where in fact something’s been nagging you for ages but when you really look at it your realise it was external codes that made you feel bad.

Know who you are and do what you think is the right thing whenever possible, and you’ll sleep easy at night and be able to have a high level of self-respect and self-liking. IMO without those things, everyone is building castles on sand, no matter how well they try to bluff it out.

Some people are born without the ability to worry too much about their actions, but if you envy them that, you’re just doing the religionist act of transferring moral authority outside yourself, so be careful there, and be true to yourself instead.

Plus, if you always believe in yourself, and respect and like yourself, you’re going to be one hard motherfucker to mess with, because you have no “enemies within” - in your own mind.

You acquire certainty, and you KNOW that you have the moral authority of the god of your creation, and that’s a thing most trad. spiritual operations make people jump through hoops of fasting, celibacy, and “purification” to obtain, and even then most people won’t ever meet a false external standard.

10

Well if someone wants a truly measured justification, then you should take your issues to the gods/entities that handle this kind of matters… Like Tyr or … Osiris ? whichever you prefer from all the gods of law and judgement.

At least then there is a scale for justification, because “eye for an eye” is quite hard to apply on everything. And of course some things are so insignificant that it is easier to let them go than to curse.

11

I find justification to be a simple matter and almost Luciferian.

Strike back at those who harm you, or your loved ones. They are your enemies.

Strike at those who harm the innocent, they are the true evil and are the enemies of all man.

Do no harm to the innocent, it is beneath a God to harm those weaker then him/her without provocation. They are potential Gods and deserve to live in peace.

As for the length to which to strike at your enemies… destroy them, lest they return to strike at you again. If you can not destroy them, instill such fear in them that they know never to strike at you again.

Push your wrath as far as you can without causing further harm to you, your loved ones or the truly innocent.

12

I generally treat others how they treat me. Personally, I believe that is the most logical and balanced way to live.

13

Justification is something that is in dormant, for me. To be a personality of someone that is silent, shy, quiet, carefull, a “loner” in the background of a group of people and someone who is introvert rather than extrovert. And my temperament is very low, which makes a justification for a wrongdoing extremely unpredictable compared to someone with a high temperament that often act in haste, rather than thinking things through.

Is there something I could justify, despite my personality of being overly calm in stressfull situations?

I often ask myself: Why is there violence in the world? Why is there wars? Why do people bad things to eachother, hurt eachother, kill eachother? What can I do to change this? When these thoughts take over entirely - it happened a few times - it makes me deeply sad and depressed and the burden on the malevolent aspect of human behaviour, lies on my shoulder. But that’s not justification, per se. That’s questioning the aspect of “why”, and trying to understand others justification of doing these horrible acts.

Sure, these people might act in selfishness, fear, to gain power or something else that fits in to their interpretation of “justification”. But I still don’t know why.