The Demon Point Of View Review

General Discussion
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I was watching Conjuring 2 the other day and thought to myself: “The demon King Valak seems interesting. Why hasn’t anyone taken his side and point of view of the interesting events in Enfield in the 1970’s?” Of course, the demon King wasn’t involved in the real events, and he was just chosen to represent a dark and powerful entity being responsible for the horrifying occurrences in the movie. To get to the point with this thread, I have to sum up what the movie was about, so here it goes:

Conjuring 2 is about a family in the UK during the 1970’s and it’s pretty much based on the Enfield Poltergeist events, which was considered a hoax by many experts. And like the Amityville Horror events, the Warren couple were involved to investigate the events.

There’s this ghostly apparition of a 72 year old man that died of hemmorhage in his brain, while sitting on his favorite chair. The old man ghost is terrorizing the children of fear for the demon King Valak, and the Warrens visit them to make things even more terrifying for the family.

To get rid of the demon King, Lorraine Warren had to find out his name to successfully banish him. Guess what? She did found out his name and banished him. The end.

That’s how the movie ended, and to be honest, the manuscript must have been just as short as my spoiler section.

So, what really happened in this movie? Was the demon King Valak just misunderstood by the Warrens and the family of the house? Maybe he wanted to get to know the girl and teach her a thing or two about spirits and ascension? Or maybe he wanted a hug, because even a King and a commander of 30 legions needs that from time to time. Maybe he just acted out of dogma, because they treated him with fear and the only response was to look like Marilyn Manson in a nun costume?


He really looks quite awesome with this manifestation and he really plays the ”dogma card” to his advantage.

Like most horror movies out there, we never really get the reason of why demons appear for some people and we really don’t know why fear just makes it worse for them. The darkness comes with no agendas revealed, yet the response of the manifestation is fear. And fear makes things worse, because it triggers this hunger so they feed upon it. What purpose had King Valak in this movie? Did they really studied this entity before they put him in the manuscript?

The Warrens claimed themselves to be “demonologists”, yet they had a dogmatic view to it. Lorraine, according to an interview, based her experience of an apparition of a cloaked entity to become the demon King Valak. I wonder why? What’s the similarities in that decision? Because Valak doesn’t look nothing like that, according to the Grimoire. In it, he have the looks of a child with angelic wings, riding on a two-headed serpent. That manifestation would have been interesting, rather than a nun.

I give this movie a 2 out of 5 because lack of research. The effects and looks of the spirit and Valak was quite awesome, despite an inaccurate appearance.

I will keep this thread updated with other horror movies with demon entities. They deserve another point of view, without dogma.

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This is why I stopped watching all of the ghost hunting shows; it’s always something “demonic”. Whatever, lol.

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The only thing “haunting” some of those places on the shows is the paranormal teams themselves.

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i watched this movie,very bad…

but this kind of genre nowadays,is very difficult to find a good one

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Next demon to get under the periscope is Pazuzu from the movie The Exorcist. This particular movie is considered a “classic” by horrorfans and reviewers around the world, but I don’t get what the fuzz is about with this one, really. Here comes a short explanation of what this movie is about:

This movie is, basically, about a 12 year old girl (Linda Blair) that is possessed by a demon called Pazuzu after an Ouija Board session. A priest (Max von Sydow) get the call to do an exorcism to get rid of the demon. The exorcism lasts for several days with strange activities and oddly behaviors from the girl. The bed is shaking, her head is twisted 180 degrees and she even did some “adult stuff” with a crucifix, for some strange and unexplained reasons. She did a lot of vomiting too, obviously. During one of the exorcisms, the priest dies of a heart attack and a new priest continues the work. He get possessed by the demon and decides to jump to his death to prevent more attacks from Pazuzu. That’s the basic story of the film.

Do you think an old Assyrian/Babylonian god, like Pazuzu enjoys being described as an “evil” spirit, like in this movie? I think not. So, who is Pazuzu? According to mythology, Pazuzu is a demon of the southwest wind known for bringing famine on dry seasons and he is affiliated with locusts and other insects. He is also powerful enough to keep malicious entities at bay and a formidable protector to his allied magicians. An awesome protector of humans against plagues and misfortunes. Pretty awesome, huh?

Why was he the villain of the movie? Just like Conjuring 2, there’s no agenda to Pazuzu’s behavior in The Exorcist. If we remove Pazuzu’s part in this movie, it would pretty much be about a 12 year old girl on her puberty. Doing an exorcism at that point, does make more sense to the messy results than blaming Pazuzu for it.


Puberty. It’s messy, but most of us outgrow it successfully.

A controversial theory - Exorcism and Hypnotism

Hypnosis is basically speaking in tongue with trigger words in a sentence, which wakes up the unconscious mind. And some of the exorcists use a similar method, and the “possessed” react in a similar way. A priest with a high skill of preaches to the masses, usually trigger a reaction where the audience passes out or get convulsions, like an epileptic seizure. How come? Hypnosis with triggerwords between the sentences, usually get caught up in the unconscious mind to trigger a physical reaction. Isn’t it possible that powerful words within dogma of religion can cause a similar reaction as hypnosis? I think so.

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Wow Really Good Thread! Thanks!

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I love this thread SO much… :smiley:

I remember watching Paranormal Activity and feeling really sad for the demon, he’d followed this girl all her life and even carried her photo round, then her boyfriend was a total asshat who took the whole thing as a joke, IMO (from the demon’s POV) he got what he deserved!

Love it!

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By request, I will put Mister Babadook under the periscope, but this might get tricky because the plot speaks for the favor of this demon. Even though he’s purely fictional, but for what Babadook represent, there is a few real representative demons out there. So, what about this Babadook character? Let’s take a look at the story, shall we?

This story is about a mother and her son, dealing with the loss of a dear husband and father. One night, the mother reads a book about The Babadook for her son, even though she think the story is both scary and disturbing. A few days after, strange things occurs in the house with slamming doors, strange noises and pieces of glass appearing on the dinner plate while eating. Who’s to blame? Yeah, you guessed it right. Of course she blames her son for the strange events, because that’s what parents do in their big bubble of parenthooding. And guess what? She was wrong, like parents always are.

When she finally comes to senses that it’s not her son playing a prank because of grief and anger of his deceased father, she throws the book away. Did she got rid of the book? Of course not, because it reappeared in front of the door the day after. These things usually thickens the plot of the story, making it worse for the one throwing bad things away. She - for the joy of the audience - finally sees Mister Babadook in person.

A lot of bad things happens in the presence of Babadook. He possesses the mom, forcing her to kill the dog and chasing her son. But her son is perfectly able to handle the situation by himself, so he stabs her with a knife, forcing the demon to leave her body. When both confronts Babadook, he suddenly realised that they are not afraid of him anymore. He accept the defeat like a perfect gentleman, but he cannot leave. They accept his presence and let him stay in the basement. They are even kind enough to give him food every day. Lucky him. That was, basically, the story.

It’s damn hard to give a demon point of view on this one, because the characters comes in term to accept Babadook, once they stopped being controlled by the grief and loss of a loved one. What’s there to defend now?

http://lynncinnamon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/thebabadook.jpg

I see Babadook as a Tulpa or an Egregore created by grief, and as long as the grief had a hold on the mom and her son, Babadook stayed hostile and scary with his manifestation. Once they accepted him and let go of the grief, he just stopped being hostile to them. He couldn’t feed anymore, so they gave him leftovers in the basement like he was a nerdy teenager. I really hope they gave him a lot of hugs too. He deserves it, doesn’t he?

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I’m enjoying this thread. What about an analysis of some more complex films? Would like to see what others think about It follows and The witch.

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It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. It doesn't give up. IT FOLLOWS

That’s the tagline of the next movie, and sure it’s a “catchy” one, too. So, what’s the fuzz with this movie? Sex and curses are the theme, and the main antagonist is a shapeshifter of some sort, haunting people for having an intimate moment. Isn’t that interesting?

When people are having sex, It follows. The end. Because that what this film is, basically, about. If you “stick it”, It sticks back at you and It wont leave until It’s done. And when It is done, it takes on the next victim, like tracking the sexual connection backwards until the curse is over.

I might simplify the plot with this one, because it is quite simple in a way, to make room for the bigger debate about fear for sexually transmitted deceases, or the fear of getting close and letting people into their lives. Can we sympathise with the “It”-entity, or is it just too cruel to kill people for just enjoying themselves?

What does this entity represent? Consequences of one’s actions? What purpose did it have by it’s actions? The deeper side of the plot doesn’t really explain the reason of it to appear and kill people, because a “normal” curse is about someone getting offended through ignorance, or through a despicable act. Sure, some people see the act of intercourse as something despicable or ignorant, yet the motifs are too much hidden to grasp to the surface.

I can’t give sympathy to this movie-villain in any way, because it lacks intelligence and a personality. That doesn’t make the movie bad or anything, because it is chilling and scary, but the point of view from the villain isn’t there for me.

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Fun topic & nice job Succupedia!

It originates with the writer, William Peter Blatty. He was a successful comedy writer prior to The Exorcist, and that novel was his first attempt at writing something serious or that wasn’t comedy. He said that himself, that he wanted to write something serious and that The Exorcist was his first serious or non-comedic work. He likely knew nothing about demonology. I picture a guy in the early seventies sitting in a public library perusing books on witchcraft and demonology searching for a “scary looking” demon to write about. The director William Friedkin, who had directed the French Connection, read and liked the book and wanted to make it into a movie. So, regarding your question, the “why” is because you have two people who are by no means any type of experts on demonology or the occult, nor was the audience as a general rule so the question really is basically an expert in the demonology field asking why the clueless aren’t being historically accurate. For anyone who likes the movie I highly recommend the documentary Fear of God: The Making of The Exorcist. The psychological effect that movie had on people at the time here in the states was absolutely unprecedented. It’s accomplishments are far more significant than whether it is accurate by elite demonological standards.

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To be completely fair to the demons in question, all of these are works of fiction. As a horror movie junkie, I love the analysis, but these are all fictional portrayals from people who have biases and assumptions.

The Conjuring 2 is “based” on a true story, but there are ways to separate truth from fiction. For example, the Warrens were not the investigators behind the Enfield Poltergeist and their role was heavily dramatized. On a Darkness Radio Podcast, Guy Lyon Playfair, one of the original paranormal investigators on the Enfield Poltergeist case, came forward prior to the movie’s release and said that the Warrens had showed up “uninvited” and only stayed for a day. He also said that Ed Warren told him he could make him a lot of money off the case. You can listen to the entire podcast here: [url=http://m.twincitiesnewstalk.iheart.com/onair/darkness-radio-24463/just-how-involved-were-the-warrens-14254983/]http://m.twincitiesnewstalk.iheart.com/onair/darkness-radio-24463/just-how-involved-were-the-warrens-14254983/[/url] . Valak was not an original part of the story and was added in for dramatic effect. It is a movie after all.

Likewise with the Exorcist, purely fiction. It is a movie based on a book that is influenced by an exorcism of an anonymous boy in 1949 who is referred to as Roland Doe. The movie is highly sensualized, and again, the involvement of Pazuzu is a film addition. In fact, William Peter Blatty, single handedly created the character Pazuzu from Babylonian mythology. No grimoire that I am aware of name him.

The Babadook (great movie by the way) is actually a symbolic representation of depression. ““If it’s in a word or in a look you can’t get rid of the Babadook.” The Babadook is a representation of Amelia’s loss of her husband Oskar. So much that she refuses to let people say his name around her. “I’ll wager with you, I’ll make you a bet. The more you deny, The stronger I get.” If you try to repress an emotion rather than deal with it it gets worse.

And It Follows is a metaphor for a sexually transmitted disease. But it’s horror and disease is boring, so a sex monster that literally humps you to death.

These entities aren’t real or are definitely portrayed in a fictional or straight up metaphorical manner.

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I think it’s that “Ancient Gods are actually demons” which some monotheistic people go in for? Btw quite hard not to make that sound like a passive-aggressive jab at Ash, but it’s not! :stuck_out_tongue:

When the Greek reconstructionist/revivalists did a landmark ceremony to Zeus in Athens, in 2007 (link) one of the Orethodx Christians said:

“They are a handful of miserable resuscitators of a degenerate dead religion who wish to return to the monstrous dark delusions of the past” ~ Father Efstathios Kollas, the President of Greek Clergymen.

I’ve read serious analyses in the past of how Shiva (Rudra, roaring with Trisula in His hand) IS the archetype of the demon with the three-pronged hell-jabber, same with Odin (Ad-Dajjal, Islam’s version of the anti-christ) and oh… loads more.

So, some things just will always look dark, delusional, dangerous - if you sit on one side of that fence. :slight_smile:

Pazuzu is real, so maybe the author just thought it sounded scary, Ghostbusters (the original movies) did much the same with the idea of real dead human beings which is actually pretty horrendously offensive, if you think about it! (And love anyone who died!)

Just like the dead, Pazuzu’s not a demon, but I can totally understand why someone could think they are, the same way the amazing Goddess Wadjet/Buto “became” the “demon” Bimé who people bug for $20 extra in their tips/tax-refunds/“found on the street” etc that week. :slight_smile:

Anyway, thread fulla awesome, so please keep 'em coming is my vote Mister S.!

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The demon in the movie Insidious seems like an interesting character, so let’s see why he set himself in an awkward situation, looking like Darth Maul getting lost in the props of a horror movie.

Lipstick-Face is the main villain, and he makes a real mess to a family that moved into a new house. Apparently, one of the children in the family starts to hear creaky noises in the attic and as he investigate this by climbing the ladder, he sees this shadowy figure, falls and ends up in a coma. After three months of treatment with no results of finding the reason for ending up in a comatose state, the family decides to take him home.

You might think the movie ended there with a sequel to explain what happened next, but the moviecrew were nice enough to make it worse for the family in the new house, instead. So hold on to your ticket, try to relax and see what Lipstick-Face are up to, when the kid got home.

When everyone in the family are finally together again, the shit hit the fan, and it’s not made from tiny mice bottoms either. So, Lipstick-Face starts to make himself known by messing with the baby monitor, making scary voices, and the coma-kid starts to walk in his sleep for no reasons at all. The demon manifests in front of the mom, and she freaks out of course. Who wouldn’t freak out by Darth Maul’s distant cousin? I know I would. Other events are happening in the presence of Lipstick-Face, such as bloody handprints pretty much everywhere in the house. Because of these events, which basically was a simple introduction of the new guest in the house, the family decided to move out of the house with intensions of leaving the mess behind and start over.

Did it get better when moving out and finding a new place to live? No. It just got worse. Ghostly apparitions appears for no reasons at all, and Lipstick-Face manifests more frequently this time around. They travel to the astral plane and finds out the origins of the demon, which resemblance Purgatory but it’s called The Further. Apparently, Lipstick-Face is the ruler of this realm. After a tough confrontation in the astral plane, the demon finally disappear. Or so they thought. There is plenty of sequels to this movie, and more will come.


”Hey! I’m Darth Mau….Lipstick-Face!”

Who is this Lipstick-Face, anyway? Allthough he’s purely fictional, he seems to resemblance Belial or Paimon in a way of being an authoritative spirit of the realm of his origins. Belial is said to be an inspiration for the villain, but I can’t find the link to prove it, right now.

This movie is basically about an authoritative spirit trying to reach out to humans, but they are too afraid to deal with him in a diplomatic way, so they chose to react with fear instead of giving him cookies and warm milk. The looks of this demon was, apparently, the reason for Darth Maul’s appearance in the Star Wars movies. Yeah, George Lucas must have used a timemachine to achieve this, and anything is possible with that old fellow.

To sum it up, I did like this movie a lot, but these sequels is kind of bothersome because a fourth film is in the coming next year. Let’s just hope the villain gets a hug this time.

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I’m not much of a horror movie fan, as I’ve said before and might say again. But I do wanna give some suggestions.

  • Jennifer’s Body: It antagonizes succubi, something you’ll either dislike greatly or have a lot to talk about. Or both! But with that in mind, it’s an okay movie. Cool that books on demonology are readily available at the school library. There is also an, at least from what I’ve noticed, Carmilla-esque relationship between the protagonists.

One of my all time favorite bands wrote one of the songs on the track,“New Perspective” and I had basically seen the trailer and was kind of creeped out. At the time there was a malign entity that preyed off of my fear and tried to vamp me while I was in sleep paralysis and used the movie to make itself scarier. After I had conquered it and recovered I ended up watching it.

-When the Lights Went Out:Not that scary, based on a true story. Encountered the movie while researching its monster who I was looking to befriend. It’s the true story of Europe’s most violent haunting. The entity itself, the Black Monk of Pontefract, was very much human and a ghost.

But specific contact with the entity has led met to find that he is actually something of an ascendant master. He’s on par with all the tormented souls that we work to heal and guide in psychopomp work but he actually ENJOYS his state and uses it to grow in power in black magic. So he’s not “stuck” between life and death, he wants to stay that way.

-Annabelle: More Ed and Lorraine Warren. Yay. Because we all know they’re demonology experts right? Partially based on a true story, I first encountered Annabelle when watching a documentary on the original doll and the original experience. I can probably find it when I talk about what I found from the real Annabelle.

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Lady Eva…Funny that you mentioned the Pantheonic revivalists. Can’t help it but to comment on that.

People that are serious with Ancient Greek mysticism; i.e. Dionysian and Dark Eleusinian rites; (including myself) don’t hold these people in high regard. Most (not all) of them are illiterate individuals with no real knowledge of the archaic, the gods and/or basic understanding of important principals such as Logos and Gnosis.

For these reasons they put themselves out there performing all sorts of clownish reenactments that are far off from being true to their origins.
They collide with the morons from the other side (Orthodox fanatics), end up losing because they’re outnumbered and because they lack power and direction that come with strong leadership.

As a result they gain ridicule and further diminish in the eyes of the public what is the ancestral Greek religion.

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I did get a vibe that Darth Maul’s appearance was somehow real - connected to something that was, anyway, Interesting!

(And thanks for the info on the Greek thing Zeus, I don’t know much about those people, I just thought that priest guy’s words were very spiteful.)

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I find it weird how demons are always depicted as red. Why not green, gold or blue? I wonder if people ever think about scientific occult significance behind colors.

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The film, ‘Lights Out’ is also a pretty good movie. It mainly focuses on mental illness and how that in turn draws astral parasites, somewhat similar to the Babadook.I am sure those of you who have struggled with some form of mental illness that eventually became debilitating, will be able to relate to the film. Worth a watch!

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A dark song was great film, about two people locking themselves in a house and doing abramlin operarion.

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