Some thoughts on formulation of the charge


#1

At least the spirit of the Ars Goetia seem to very literal in one sense, and very liberal in their interpretation in another, of the charge you think you are issuing to them. My rules, drawn from my experiences, on the first point are …

You want to give a command i.e. you want to use the imperative form.

  1. Do not say “I want …”, “I want you to …”, “It is my desire that …”

That is a statement of ones desire, not a command. It’s like telling your wife “I want my slippers” instead of “Bring me my slippers”. If she’s like one of the 72 she’ll tell you to go get them yourself then, or worse, dangle them before your nose with an “I know you do” while you snatch vainly for them.

  1. Do not say “Please …”

Inserting “please” leaves open the possibility in your mind that the accomplishment of the task lies with the spirit deciding to do it - and implicitly gives the spirit permission to do so. And then you wonder why you fail. Do not leave it to chance. Do not give it a choice.

  1. Do not say “I command you to …”

Taken literally, which the spirit can do, this is pretty much the same sort of thing as 1, besides being pompous.

  1. Do not ask a question. It’s not “Will you make X fall in love with me?”, but “Make x fall in love with me”.

This isn’t about spirits being two-faced legalistic lawyers … it’s because you have the potential to do anything with them within their powers and they need absolutely clear instructions to get it just right … not to forget that in a ritual of evocation you are at that moment fashioning the very world around you - make it exactly as you want it and it will become as you desire.


#2

This is perfect. Ive been struggling lately with my mannerisms during evocation. I had a teacher a long time ago tell me to “mind your manners” when dealing with any entity, but as you showed, you can be TOO polite.

Ive been experimenting a lot with my choice of words, and saying “here is my situation, and here is what is needed to resolve it. Is this within your power?” seems to get me further than begging/pleading or commanding.

Angelic forces seem to respond better to actual conversation and politeness, while Ive noticed that the demonic almost seem to be like typing code into a command prompt. Ive often got the feeling that they’re like sentient programs anyway.

What works best for you? I understand that human mannerisms are almost irrelevant in this situation, but it always feels strange to me to just issue a task without being somewhat personable with the entity involved.


#3

I’d put that in the buildup to physical evocation. In finding the entity and performing divination, and channeling or subtler forms of evocation beforehand, I’d know it’s within his power and I’d have won him as an ally. The infernal hierarchy is this: first the operator, and then the rest of existence. The evocation is your time to act as God to command the rest of existence. God does not need to threaten or abuse those who recognise his spiritual authority. They obey him out of necessity. The problem lies in assuming that authority …


#4

I agree with being too polite as a bad thing. I had evoked a demonic entity whose lore stated that it should be treated with a high level of respect. Although I wasn’t grovelling or subservient, my interpretation of that statement left me in a lesser position and the entity started to draw out my energy, leaving me curled up on the floor in a fair bit of discomfort.
After a minute of this, my mind racing, I was able to draw myself deeper into rapture and remember that which I am and turned things around. Once I fired up and put the entity in its place it was pleased. Was it the entity’s primary intention to feed off me or to teach me a hard lesson? I have a feeling it was the later


#5

I like the breakdown of specific principles (I’ve tried that in other places, and I found that for me- over time it helps to gel my understand- at least to challenge it)- and a slightly different take I have is the issue above of “politeness”…
The issue being amongst humans- in modern society (which even depends culture to culture- but in the metropolitan culture) there is what could be termed “the social contract” thus saying, I’d like you to, or “I would really appreciate if you…” is two things: making a statement of my preference, and yet per that “social contract” that implies a request. -depending upon the relational-frame, ie if you walk up to a complete stranger in a city, and state you would prefer that they don’t play their music so loud, at home. (?) -without adding “at home” -they may assume you think that some music playing at that moment is theirs… or something… while if they are someone living in your household, a neighbor, or similar an office-neighbor- etc. They see a relevant connection, so that interp.

 This came to mind in terms of different, but context relation of Taoist working with large beings, ex "a Mtn"  -speak to a Mtn (let alone an oldgrowth tree), I'd really like to find some people that want to talk about XYZ subject... how else oldgrowth huge-tree, or geo-ancient Mtn respond than, thx for sharing..  (those specifics may not even compute, as I've sensed sometimes communicating "thought-pulse" intention about "more Money$"  whether special paper, or an increased computer-value (in certain computer files, not just any).    Some bounce-back a feeling like if I was to ask a shape-shifting Entity, can you change from wearing a green suit to wearing a purple suit?  if they just shift how they are perceived by the perceiver- they may think "I wonder why that's an issue?"  but if no big deal, then ....
   Thus a 3rd option- not polite or not, vs commanding or not- and not so much computer-demands to a "program" rather if you go to an Advisor and they are busy, and able to make a phone call and active many in your request- but be direct.  (I don't agree with the emphasis on "specfics" you have to have all the details worked out-  what you are clear, then do so, but likely if it is something not minor, then you don't know the details- if you can clearly visualize and work out all the details: then A) you could do it yourself and B) its not really a change for you, just in your existing Pattern.   I think an Evok-Req should only be for something that changes one's Pattern- which depends on a degree of "Awakening" - new level of understanding (so that you look back and say- "ah, now I get it, before I thought I saw where this was going, but I didn't have the context to even guess."

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To quote 2 above posts…

 As Poete Maudit commented: <I'd put that in the buildup to physical evocation. In finding the entity and performing divination, and channeling or subtler forms of evocation beforehand, I'd know it's within his power and I'd have won him as an ally. >

I see this related to 2 modes related to comments about Evoking on this forum (and else where):

first is sort of choose from Grimmoire and do a working- and maybe repetition, but that being first contact, thus going in blind- etc.

Second, being the Getting to Know Process is part of initial Contact, receiving and sending Comm during that (can they do XYZ, how do they view doing that XYZ in my situation- etc.
Info arises new angles upon… also may arise thoughts from Entity of "when you summon me, prior to Phy-Evok, or at do DEF (certain scents, powders, different sigils, or how the rite is done… during this, what kind of a Recognition-Appreciation-Memorial done to the Entity (not so much- what they “want done” not and exchange, but to enact part of their Nature… learn about that- in the lead up to).

Also Summoning Prior to Phy-Evok.. being quite distinct from Phy-Evok attempts (Phy-Evok seems to be full reality shift- encountering Entity as distinct as another person in the same room- although not as it they were a concrete-person.. different nature, but as distinct...    first attempt it won't be that clear, but that is per it being developmental- not that a vague sense is enough to call it Phy-Evoke  

Soundwaves comment: and then <Was it the entity’s primary intention to feed off me or to…>
This is interesting and I see this being commented by some others on this forum (let alone a couple of other authors writing more recently about Evoking) that it is demanding an Authority (as if the primate-mammal social dynamics of dominance apply? perhaps- but communicating directly, or indir, verbal, or NVC (“non-verbal”) only applies in our cultural-society and our bio-reactions… to a reptile? an insect? let alone a Mtn, or a Daemon that may have existed at the level of sensing-affecting probabilities and civilization-waves… let alone “living” within the heart of a star-sun (see Vedic deva/angel concepts- at root in many other systems, even if implied).

But instead of it being get in the confident-mindset, and then speak "in charge"...  same concept in appearance, but rather an energetic-state, "who is supporting-driving the interaction?"   like in a business-event/project... many may be involved, but one person should be the 'underlying support" (spoken of as "this is so-and-so's project")- which doesn't mean they are doing much, likely they are doing less than others, but direction is seen from them (best to have two others appointed- Ops Face, and Finan-Face: who is the leader to look to for "marching-orders" on each part of the Project..   and they are evaluated by others in that community (for ex the later, "Finan-Face" by those that might invest in the Projects development and/or its output-result~product(s),,, again they may or may not do as much, but their "rep" & "Exper"-relevance and extent.. etc.)
           That may seem a diversion, but have those in place- and things click- and without... a floundering.   The Psych-dynamics of Freudian-exchange Roles, vs ambiguity (to evoke those patterns in the "client"): which is all human-language dynamics (upon the primate-mammal dom-submis dynamics & leader-follower/ join-in or watch)... all this being separate from the Energetic relation of the Contact...    If any reading this as Meditated in a group- where that same/similar meditation is done solo, or in different groups... the more developed seem to Boost, and the less able to attune (less devel) "Ride the Coattails".. 

that feeling of supporting the resonance- vs watching it: long story short, I think being in that wishywashy feeling-comm, (in my mind: my goal is, well, not sure- sort of I’d like it, what does Entity want? why are you here? see what Entity does… wait and see)- that may shift “Energetically” the attunement upon the Entity, so it feels like a draining of your energy, when it may be more a flaring-off like an electrical-short, vs a solid complete-circuit.

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 [It seemed as I wrote above, it became more clear to me- so it wandered a bit, as well as seemed to take a bit to try and make distinct from how these understandings usually are Occult-presented.. so easy to "ah, I know where that is going.."  as a result this became long seeming for this forum, but short for an article..  although hardly even a chapter length :)  cheers-luck]