Reversed expectation


#1

A few years ago I read about a method of reality manipulation which although is overly simple it still seems to produce results.
It works like this: say you want something to occur and you hold that wish in the BACK of your mind and in the FRONT of your mind you sadly think that it won’t happen. You are supposed to believe that the opposite of what you desire will occur so that the law of reverse effort will work to your advantage, in contrast to what happens when you are influenced by the “lust or result” which always tends to ruin your expectations about the outcome of any situation.
I would be interested to learn if you guys have ever used that and what you think about it.


#2

You mean to say that lusting for the opposite of what you desire will produce exactly it is you really wish? If this method works, it is a genius reality hack.


#3

This would work, but I don’t have enough control over my emotions to genuinly wish for the opposites of what it is I am wishing for. I mean just now I tried to get exited about not having money and it didn’t really work too well. It’s like trying to get off to porn opposite of your sexual orientation, at least for me.


#4

Yes, that’s exactly my point.

I understand what you’re talking about, but I actually refer to the outcome of more specific and less complicated daily situations. You are supposed to keep consciously in the front of your mind the expectation that a specific unpleasant outcome will occur so that the universe will give you the opposite result. It works in the same way as when you go through daily life and have the intense expectation that a specific situation will proceed positively, but due to the law of reverse effort things turn out differently. Of course this will not work for manifesting goals which are obviously out of reach, but at least seems to work much better than hoping that you’ll get what you’re longing for in routine daily affairs.


#5

((You are supposed to keep consciously in the front of your mind the expectation that a specific unpleasant outcome will occur so that the universe will give you the opposite result))
I think What I understood from you Dimitris to put consciously the opposite of your desired outcome in your mind And add the false emotion of being so attached to this opposite outcome (Like for example saying and believing in your mind that you hope and don’t want hot women to seduce you )
Cause I think That Believing it’s unpleasant outcome will mean that you are attached to the original desired outcome
So Do you mean That I should manipulate my emotions to be satisfied with the unpleasant outcome And want it so much ?
cause I got lost here


#6

I used to do this a lot when I was a kid. I noticed that things that I really really wanted to have happen never did, and that I usually got the opposite of what I put my emotion behind. I didn’t know then, at the age of 6ish years old, that this was the Law of Reversed Effort, but I started to manipulate the process by doing the exact opposite: allowing myself to get emotionally disappointed and let down by the pre-realization that what I wanted to have happen wasn’t going to, although in the “back” of my mind I knew what I really wanted. I saw about a 60-75 percent success rate with this, the remainder of the time I now think can be relegated to not achieving a fine enough balance between the true desire and the false disappointment.

It’s almost axiomatic among practicing magicians that your spell will bear fruit as soon as you’ve forgotten that you cast the spell in the first place, or as soon as your desire for the end result has disappeared.

This is all the Law of Reversed Effort in effect!


#7

[quote=“E.A., post:6, topic:470”]I used to do this a lot when I was a kid. I noticed that things that I really really wanted to have happen never did, and that I usually got the opposite of what I put my emotion behind. I didn’t know then, at the age of 6ish years old, that this was the Law of Reversed Effort, but I started to manipulate the process by doing the exact opposite: allowing myself to get emotionally disappointed and let down by the pre-realization that what I wanted to have happen wasn’t going to, although in the “back” of my mind I knew what I really wanted. I saw about a 60-75 percent success rate with this, the remainder of the time I now think can be relegated to not achieving a fine enough balance between the true desire and the false disappointment.

It’s almost axiomatic among practicing magicians that your spell will bear fruit as soon as you’ve forgotten that you cast the spell in the first place, or as soon as your desire for the end result has disappeared.

This is all the Law of Reversed Effort in effect![/quote]
Aha so The False Disappointment is akin to Forgetting about the outcome
It’s like (my outcome won’t happen anyway so forget it )


#8

I’m skeptical.

The outcome of a magical ritual is going to be in line with the desire for which it was performed if the magician has attained knowledge of this outcome by the close of the ritual. This by itself leads to detachment. As EA has said, if the ritual was effective, you are not even going to care any longer about the thing you desire coming your way.You don’t need to lie to yourself about the matter. You simply know it is. You can grab the other end of the stick, of course; if you are obsessed with the result, then the ritual was not effective, or is at least in some sense not closed. If you don’t know that you’ve changed the world, then you in all likelihood haven’t. Put another way, only an effective ritual will alter reality, and only an altering of reality can and should lead to a state of knowledge of this alteration. Hopes and worries are mere wishful thinking.

It’s not merely the case that an obsession with the result inevitably involves feelings of doubt as to the outcome, and that the interfering negative thoughts and imaginings that this leads to are an important part of why rituals fail, but that such a state of mind precludes the state of gnosis. If this is the case, then the “law of reversed effort” is not first and foremost overcome by trying to stop worrying about the result after the ritual, but by perfecting the ritual itself, which will leave little room for doubt and will enable you to more easily detach yourself from the desire. Jesus, if you had the power to call forth a spirit, a demon physically materialised before you, and this prince of Hell gave you his word that he will do such and such, what the hell are you going to doubt afterward?

If knowledge is power, then this is nowhere else more true than in the practice of magic.


#9

i kinda discovered that in my early days. i said “i will never again have sex with a virgin!”

oh my… :wink:


#10

[quote=“bahamuthat, post:9, topic:470”]i kinda discovered that in my early days. i said “i will never again have sex with a virgin!”

oh my… ;)[/quote]
Well I will never again have sex with the most amazing,hottest ,naughtiest
,jaw dripping , mind blowing women who scares the shit out of most other men


#11

You got it right, but the example of getting seduced by women in general at all times is something rather vague and complicated to manage. I think you could have better results by focusing on each occasion individually and aim for lesser and more specific outcomes which could be steps in succeeding your final goal.

You don’t have to feel that the unpleasant outcome will satisfy you, just keep in the front of your mind that the outcome of a specific situation you are concerned about will be the opposite of what you really want allowing yourself the get temporarily emotionally disappointed, so that the law of reverse effort will work to your advantage.

@ Poete Maudit
I’m not saying that this method is it to be used necessarily in conjunction with ritual work, I’ve just noticed by using it myself that it has some merit and would like to ask whether other members have ever used it and what they think about its efficacy.

Also, thanks a lot to Mr. Koetting for sharing his opinion on the subject.


#12

I might be totally wrong here - but it would seem to me that this would eventually catch up with you, you would begin to just expect this to happen, lose the interest of expecting the negative - and eventually start getting the negative again. Or maybe I’m just thinking too much about this :smiley:


#13

It definitely doesn’t seem to be as effective as releasing your desire through ritual, however, I am sure it could be fine tuned.


#14

Through my experience this is one of the many baby steps made toward understanding the utilization and effect of ritual. I think this is a necessary step toward understanding the place and rigorous practices that need to be exercised in order to evoke a successful ritual.
This is a road block of sorts and I know if I don’t utilize the simple practices of meditation and perhaps scrying to obtain my greater goal of evocation that I will be stuck in this tedious loop for the rest of my days. If anything this is proof that we are indeed living gods.


#15

You know, I have no reason to doubt EA’s story, so I gave this further thought to see if I could account for it within my paradigm. My conclusion is that the ‘law of reversed effort’ and the ‘law of the magus’ are intimately related. Allow me to explain.

Take the AOS sigil method. After you have created your symbol and your unconscious soul has internalised its meaning, you put it away and forget its purpose. It is, in fact, imperative to the success of the working that you do not bring the meaning of the symbol to conscious awareness. Once this has happened, perhaps days or weeks later, you enter the gnostic state and ‘fire off’ or activate the sigil. Of course your ‘unconscious’ knows what the desire is, but your conscious mind has no idea of it.

And I ask myself why that is. Let me just call what I regard as the collective hallucination of human waking consciousness as a nexus. I have written elsewhere that I think the ‘law of the magus’ has consequences because when the purpose of a ritual is brought to conscious awareness outside of the gnostic state in the ritual, the nexus knows about it and attempts to counteract the change (the world is supposed to operate on laws and magic cannot be because it breaks these law, natural or moral - magic was unboubtedly easier to perform in more ancient times, before most humans came to believe in such a limited world, and hence the very real presence of gods and demons for the ancients). But this would explain the ‘law of reversed effort’ too, as you’re bringing your desire and the purpose of the ritual to conscious awareness. The nexus knows you have performed magic to change such and such, and will respond.

So, how would reversed expectations work? The thought that the ritual has failed would cause the nexus not to bother about it, counterbalancing the solidification of your fears of failure into reality. If that’s true then there would be a ‘sweet spot’ for which they cancel each other out and allow your unconscious desires to manifest unhindered in the world, but anything else would be hit or miss. That would explain the roughly 60% success rate. All in all though, I think it cannot in principle match the success of total detachment.