Results reversing themselves


#1

A few of you may remember I posted months ago about an evocation where I called a few spirits and asked them to make a target of mine miserable. Specifically, I asked Focalor to cause him to lose his job so I wouldn’t have to endure his presence anymore, and I asked Sitri and Leraje to fuck with his current relationship.

After a few months of what seemed like futile waiting, most everything I asked for came to pass. This guy started acting out, really out of character, and ended up losing his job for it, and his relationship went straight to hell. I was ecstatic, and went on my way.

Unfortunately about a month later, he got his job back, and his girl. I know he’s an atheist so it hasn’t been because of any magickal efforts on his part. The only thing I can possibly think of is that I wasn’t clear in my desire. In my defense, usually you don’t have to add the addendum “I want him to be fired and never re-hired by the same company”, because is that even something that happens? Well, apparently.

Does anyone have any idea why my curse seemed to reverse itself? I’ve heard of them backfiring, and I’ve heard of them not working to begin with, but I’ve never heard of them being fixed without magickal assistance.

Anyway, I’ve even tried forgetting and ignoring this guy, and he insists on trying to talk to me despite admitting he knows how much he hurt me and how much I hate him. He’s provoking me at this point and I will not endure another second of his idiocy. I want to curse him again, and I want it to stickthis time. I certainly don’t blame the demons, they did as I asked. I feel like there’s something I missed and I’m just not sure what it is. I’ve combed through E.A.'s work again and again, magick is a huge part of my life, and I just have never heard of anything like this outside of mage vs mage warfare.

Any insight? Possibly a friend or family member who could sense the curse and reversed it? Not sure where to go from here.


#2

This is why I shoot to kill.

By the way, I didn’t say anything the first time, since things were working for you, but Focalor really doesn’t make sense here. When the book says that he drowns people in waters, that’s what he literally does. I must check my notes to remind me if he is under Oriens or Paimon, but he is he is most definitely a spirit of the storming sea. I think you tried to give this some sort of figurative interpretation, or perhaps you read a source that did, but that has absolutely no basis in this tradition, and I question the credentials of any magician as far as the spirits of the Ars Goetia are concerned if he claims otherwise. These spirits literally do what the book says they do. Oh, sure, Bael might make you slip by unnoticed or cover your tracks rather than making you unable to see yourself in the mirror, but these are all aspects of the same power. Drowning people in a sea of misery is not, I’m afraid, an aspect of capsizing their ships and dragging them down to Davey Jones’s Locker.


#3

Not sure this applies but I believe it says in Baneful Magick that often the cursed will have an extreme streek of good fortune before everything turns bad for them.

It sounds to me like you haven’t exhausted all desire, this guy should be dead to you and he’s still under your skin. I understand the conflict as I’ve dealt with it myself. It took me using all my hate until I had none left to make the curse stick. I can now talk to the guy and hold a normal conversation when we run into each other, he tells me about how bad things are and I play the good listener. I don’t even get satisfaction from his misfortune as he means that little to me at this point.

Do the curse again and don’t stop until you can’t feel, get it all out and throw it at your target.


#4

Though you could possibly ge thim to drown someone in a bathtub. wink


#5

What I can say from readin other forums is:

  • choice of Focalor is good, because he is capable and good in bringing havoc and misery into someone’s life
  • Sitri is who he is. Good, but often acts in a funny way
  • Leraje - despite his description I Goetia, he is a good healer. Mind and emotions healer.

So, t first you asked Focalor to mess someone’s life. Second you asked Sitri to fuck up his relationship, and this is ok. Next you asked a good minded spirit, who is keen on healing people and emotions to fuck it even more.

but, stories about Leraje are different, but I wold not use him to separate people as he can heal the past wounds.

And, what happens fast never last long. Sometimes yes, of course, but.

I would seek everything in 3 things:

  • being not precise in your task
  • asking (some) wrong spirits
  • maybe it went too fast?

If I were you I would went with hot footing him, or, if you want go with Goeatia, so the first, working on saying the words so “he will lose his job and never will be hired in that company again, and they will separate with his girl in hate, misery and anger, which will last between them forever, on this world and after death, so they will never be together again with a lots of wound made to themselves”

As I said, Focalor is ok. For the separating - I would do two things. One - send the demon on him, which will cause that he will be cheating on her constantly and he will bee thinking about doing it all the time, like Paimon. Second demon - for him having lots of horny girl around him day and night never ending. Later you can summon someone like Dantalion, to her for discover what he is doing to her. You can also ask some demon for him to make a child accidentally while cheating on her, so he will be forced to tell her the truth as he will have the child with another.

Good luck :slight_smile:


#6
As I said, Focalor is ok.

Err … no. Since you’ve just come out and flatly contradicted me on purpose, I may as well say it: forums and the internet are full of shit. And, as you say, you’re just repeating it. The opinions of some teenage witches and dabblers parroting some list of “gods” proving that horrible, abusive Ars Goetia wrong are not sources of information on these spirits. They are sources of information on figments of the imagination. Any one of these spirits can cause a bit of shit in a person’s life if asked to. A spirit of love could make a person lose his job. That could hardly last if he was able to integrate all this love stuff into his normal functioning. You see, people become numb to forces, which is obviously what has happened here … that’s just how it is. Only certain ones have a power that can finish the job.

My best advice … stop wasting your time on this guy. Seriously. Not worth your energy. Either you go for the kill in one swoop without looking back or let it be as if it never was. That his how a god acts.


#7

[quote=“blacklamb, post:1, topic:2272”]A few of you may remember I posted months ago about an evocation where I called a few spirits and asked them to make a target of mine miserable. Specifically, I asked Focalor to cause him to lose his job so I wouldn’t have to endure his presence anymore, and I asked Sitri and Leraje to fuck with his current relationship.

After a few months of what seemed like futile waiting, most everything I asked for came to pass. This guy started acting out, really out of character, and ended up losing his job for it, and his relationship went straight to hell. I was ecstatic, and went on my way.[/quote]


#8

[quote=“Poete Maudit, post:2, topic:2272”]This is why I shoot to kill.

By the way, I didn’t say anything the first time, since things were working for you, but Focalor really doesn’t make sense here. When the book says that he drowns people in waters, that’s what he literally does. I must check my notes to remind me if he is under Oriens or Paimon, but he is he is most definitely a spirit of the storming sea. I think you tried to give this some sort of figurative interpretation, or perhaps you read a source that did, but that has absolutely no basis in this tradition, and I question the credentials of any magician as far as the spirits of the Ars Goetia are concerned if he claims otherwise. These spirits literally do what the book says they do. Oh, sure, Bael might make you slip by unnoticed or cover your tracks rather than making you unable to see yourself in the mirror, but these are all aspects of the same power. Drowning people in a sea of misery is not, I’m afraid, an aspect of capsizing their ships and dragging them down to Davey Jones’s Locker.[/quote]

I don’t recall exactly why I initially went with Focalor, but I do know he is used in one of EA’s rituals in Baneful Magick. I believe Rufus Opus and S. Connolly talk about using him for excretion magick as well.

While I’m not sure I agree with all the time, you always seem to come along and say something that makes things click with me, or maybe it’s your conviction. Either way, you’ve definitely helped me look at this from a different angle. I’ve been very much drawn to Samael in this case, and I’ve always had excellent results with angels. I’m going to have to do a reading to make sure, but I think you’re right, it might help if I turn to a different spirit in this case, and…

I don’t think truer words have ever been written here. I’m going to keep this in mind going forward, having any other mentality about this is going to be futile, I’m sure.

Any secret as to how you reached that point? So many times I’ve been in a ritual and reached complete apathy at the moment, and then something will make the emotions flare up days later. Obviously this is something I still have to work on, but I feel like this is the hardest part of magick for me, by far.

Have you worked with Leraje in any healing capacity? IIRC, in the Goetia it says he causes wounds to worsen, so that’s where my logic was coming from. I’d be interested in hearing your experience with him.


#9

^DEAR GOD WHY?


#10

Don’t make fun, that’s my familiar, Richard.


#11

Don’t make fun, that’s my familiar, Richard.[/quote]

Did the spirit of H.R. Giger give you that familiar?


#12
Any secret as to how you reached that point? So many times I've been in a ritual and reached complete apathy at the moment, and then something will make the emotions flare up days later. Obviously this is something I still have to work on, but I feel like this is the hardest part of magick for me, by far.

I just quit caring, disliking him or wanting to see him dead or in pain just showed the amount of control his actions had or I should say I allowed his actions to have on me. I took back control and didn’t think of him as human, he was beneath or less than me. I never argue with subordinates and I don’t allow them to get me angry, I’m normally pretty cool and calm so why let some asshole eat away at me (just thought of your pal Richard lol).

I’d send Richard after him, that may not be as terrifying as Focalor but I believe he may be more disturbing.


#13

[quote="-TWF-, post:12, topic:2272"]

Any secret as to how you reached that point? So many times I’ve been in a ritual and reached complete apathy at the moment, and then something will make the emotions flare up days later. Obviously this is something I still have to work on, but I feel like this is the hardest part of magick for me, by far.

I just quit caring, disliking him or wanting to see him dead or in pain just showed the amount of control his actions had or I should say I allowed his actions to have on me. I took back control and didn’t think of him as human, he was beneath or less than me. I never argue with subordinates and I don’t allow them to get me angry, I’m normally pretty cool and calm so why let some asshole eat away at me (just thought of your pal Richard lol).

I’d send Richard after him, that may not be as terrifying as Focalor but I believe he may be more disturbing.[/quote]

Seriously, lol forever. Now if I don’t make Richard into an actual servitor, my life as a magician will have been for naught. It’s going to have to be my first ritual of the New Year! But I digress.

I need to start printing out and hanging up some of the quotes around here just to help fix my mentality. Believing in my own power is something I have to reaffirm on a daily basis, especially in relation to other people .

You also made me realize he probably knows he can get a rise out of me now, which didn’t really occur to me. Perhaps at this point it’s worth the effort to work more on my attitude and less on hurting him, as that would be more beneficial to my magick in the long run. I’m loathe to see him go unpunished, but it’s something I will meditate on. Thank you.


#14

Pretty much my thoughts exactly…sad but true.

I need to start printing out and hanging up some of the quotes around here just to help fix my mentality. Believing in my own power is something I have to reaffirm on a daily basis, especially in relation to other people .

You also made me realize he probably knows he can get a rise out of me now, which didn’t really occur to me. Perhaps at this point it’s worth the effort to work more on my attitude and less on hurting him, as that would be more beneficial to my magick in the long run. I’m loathe to see him go unpunished, but it’s something I will meditate on. Thank you.

Fix yourself and all sorts of shit gets fixed in the process. This is one reason why I despise relationship magick, people want to fix their lovers but never work on their own hang ups. Its easier to look at someone else as the source of a problem instead of realizing you allow the problem to exist. I totally get what you mean about affirming ones own power. I joke a lot about myself and run myself down in a humorous manner just because I think its funny but at the same time it has a detrimental effect. Its something I have to be concious of and work to overcome. Apathy is the enemy of the will, when you settle for less than what you deserve or want your telling yourself your not worth having your goals achieved.

Analyze, identify, adapt and overcome has become a mantra for me this last year. Don’t get me wrong, some people need a good ass kicking, we’re not always the problem but we are the only ones who can be the soloution.


#15

I had this kind of effect with love magick in the past.
As I was focus on spelling on a girl, she was attracted by myself, but once I stopped for weeks to give her any attention or magickally working on the case, the attraction start fading away.

I guess the same thing can happened in a lot of magickal aspect. To me, the demons have done the job you called them for, but haven’t received the task to stay next to this guy during is lifetime, so they should have left him as soon as the task you ask them for as been completed.

Don’t worry with that if you have a succesfull ritual in first time, the demons will probably works great a second time. Just make another ritual if you like to, and negociate with the spirits for permanent or different effects.