I have two questions about contradictions in magick.
I have religious objects in my home and they are from my mother and yes i still like them.
It’s a cross and Rosary. My mother was the same like me we don’t like dogma’s and she had very strong connection with spirits. No problem to talk to a spirit when she was around.
Now can an object like that make a spirit angry. It’s just hanging on the wall and a little necklace i wear from time to time. And of course i refer to movies and Catholic teaching. But i didn’t see my mother having a problem. Even now when I’m starting to look into the LHP i still feel spirits around me and giving me advice sometimes, so i don’t think it’s a problem but i would like to have your opinion.
Today i just read a bit in the Grand Grimoire and i see prayers to God before the invocation of Lucifer. Well if that isn’t a contradiction to what I’ve been teached as a Catholic i don’t know. Is it even used in the LHP? Or do Angels and Demons work together and still are in a sort of hierarchy?
Oh and like i already told i have a problems with dogma’s and how people treat Ancient Gods. I don’t believe these beings to be just evil or just good. I think they are just like us, their own will. So that’s why i made a choice to work with these beings. Angels or Ancient Gods.
No, it shouldn’t be a problem, as long as everything is done with respect. While some on this forum have personal issues with Judeo-Christian currents, on the whole, I have found no issues whatsoever. I am not religious, nor a Christian or Catholic but I do work with both angels and demons without problems. Contrary to religious propaganda, they are not at war in any way, and can and do work together. Members here have even had angels recommend to them certain demons to work with.
According to one member on here, the beings that the Cabal deal with despise angels and the like, so if you were jumping into that current, the religious artifacts might cause problems, but otherwise, in my opinion, it should be fine.
As for the Grand Grimoire, you have to remember that it was written at a time when the Church ruled everything, and so it is written from that perspective. You can easily call upon Lucifer without a prayer to “God.”
I thought one of the Cabal’s main deities was a fallen angel… I guess it’s possible to have an entity that despises thier own race but I still think it’s a little strange to make certain exceptions.
20-25 years ago I attempted to summon demons doing as a text, The infernal book, instructs: remove crosses, images of saints etc from the room.
Talking on phone with a magician, if I remember well, he said this isn’t necessary. From a strictly religious point of view, indeed there is conflict, but not if we view entities either as universal forces or “mind parts” and so on.
To the question on religious objects bothering spirits…
Tough cookies. They might not like my other tools. They are MY tools. If they force me to not use a tool, what else might a spirit try to force on me? They don’t have to approve yourself necessarily, you do.
To the question on christian conjurations…
Two fold answer. One, the time the grimoires were written would be due to religious dogmatic persecution such as hangings, drownings, burnings, inquisition; second that the belief was then and still is somewhat the idea it would force spirits into submission.
Could be my mistake. @TheStorm talks about the spirits he works with as hating angels, and he also mentions the Cabal in some posts so I assumed they were one and the same.
@DarkestKnight [quote=“DarkestKnight, post:7, topic:21413”]
talks about the spirits he works with as hating angels, and he also mentions the Cabal in some posts so I assumed they were one and the same.
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Let’s not make that inductive leap out of the blue. I do work with a lot of things so it’s not the best of assumptions to be making. I have a bad habit of referring to the beings I work with as if though they are an amorphous collective and I REALLY DON’T mean to be referring to any one group. Pretty sure they do though I wouldn’t be the goto for that. I am not the Cabal expert here by any means. None of the Cabal material presents angels in a flattering light though.Charnel Whispers kind of encourages killing them. They are constantly blamed with a vast amount of problems etc.
I could be wrong but my idea is simple… If you go back, way way back there was a group of beings and then humans were made So humans got to thinking they want to worship something. I guess it’s in the DNA?? I don’t know but apparently they love getting on their knees. (I do TOO but it’s for much different reasons … although gods names are sometimes called but I digress) ANYWAY. This group of beings was just that. A big sometimes not so happy group… Then man came along and separated them into two groups… They said (Constantine and the church people) said this name and this name (etc) go into THIS group and since they agree with our agenda they are good so we will call them angels and good. And to this group over here!? THIS group who promote self thought and independence!? You are BAD because you do not promote our agenda so you go into this group and we will reclassify you. from Daemons (enlightened beings) to demons. EVIL and hate-filled and deadly and terrifying vile creatures that will eat your and your children’s soul and destroy EVERYTHING YOU HOLD DEAR (big scary mountain shaking echoy baritone voice there btw) That way future generations would be too terrified of the list of beings to actually contact them and see for themselves. That is IF they even remember HOW to do it since the ones who knew them and refused to stop talking to and working with the entities on that list had been systematically murdered and killed off to hide and remove that knowledge from the populous of the nations. ALL the nations. Except of course from our ancestors … The offspring of the witches (pagans) they didn’t find and kill!!
The problem some have with the cross etc is that is may remind them of the persecution suffered and hypocrisy of the individuals that usually wear them. Not all but didn’t you ever notice that some christians are the most judgmental and hypocritical people alive? All while hiding behind that cross and the sacrifice of some man they never met and never will meet. The “evil demons” I have met have all been so wise and sweet and patient and gentle with me. I have not seen the lying and hypocrisy they have been accused of. I have found love, patience, understanding, guidance and freedom when I had only been promised I’d find nothing but “death and bondage” from these demons by the church. The death and bondage comes from the christian church… I think treat it on an individual basis. If the being you are calling or working with is bothered by the object then remove it and traces of its aura before calling them… I think it is just a “thing.” The cross itself is imbued with any energy you want. The shape itself is not what is offensive. You see? It is the energies of that church and its specific entities that is offensive… From my experience anyway. That energy makes me physically ill. And I have had many battles with “angels” so, I would not personally call on them (they don’t help me anyway) or have a cross… Unless it is upside down that is. I kind-a like those!! This is only my personal opinion and you do in your home and practice what works for you! Believe me that will change as you learn and grow by the way, so do not get all worried about it. Remember: Happy is a choice!!
Thank you @nikki for that beautiful message. I know people are judging everything. In my opinion it’s not even the beings or the grounding for the Christian believe it’s the people who did a lot with dogma’s and literally throwing away evangelic text that didn’t suit them. I have read texts of Jesus that I was not suppose to read because the church didn’t authorize. Thomas Gospel for example. If you really want to learn something than this leaves you behind with a lot of question marks about your believe system.
