Interesting. I really like that you distinguish between the two. Honestly, it seems like we look at it very similarly, but use different terms to describe it.
And I agree that the gnostic state’s effects can be just as useful in many cases. For instance, needing to perform well during a certain situation, or elicit a certain outcome of a thing they can immediately touch. Not to mention reinforcing belief and letting go so that magick can perform as well. Though, I fear without discernment of gnosis’ limitations people may try to use only it to generate results it may not be capable of producing, which could ultimately hurt their long term ability to have faith.
So that leads me to the ultimate question. Where does the “magick” come from. If gnosis is simply a tool to use magick, or tap into the subconscious, what do you believe must be done to bring true magick into the mix?
I know that’s kind of the age-old question. But as someone who has studied their own practice, is there perhaps any deep-seated truth you’ve stumbled across pertaining to that?
Also, I see what you mean about others measuring their fish. And that metaphor actually helps me a lot with putting it in perspective.
No worries, I do understand. I’ve witnessed it a lot myself, so I’m really sorry for causing you to think I was in that group of “naysayers” to begin with. Perhaps disbelief and analytical critique carry a similar tune, so I’ll be careful from now on to distinguish myself better. But either way, you’re awesome, and I look up to you and your knowledge/references on the matter of magick a lot.
And I agree, it is quite incredible that other people with no knowledge of spirits can come away with eerily similar depictions of them when they are the targets of a spell using them. The logical side of my brain wants to say that we give them form, and transmit that form to others, be it through the initial education of the sorcerer who calls to them; or subconsciously when we call upon them. But truthfully, I don’t know. Especially in your case, where you said you didnt have knowledge of Dra’talon’s form until after the evocation/result, a lot of questions arise.
My hunch considering spirits is much like Crowley’s I think, in the sense that each spirit we call upon is a reference to the mental faculty (area of the brain) we are utilizing to draw forth power. And the archetype of each spirit, as such is kind of like a reference we use to tap into it, be that most can far more easily mimic another than generate a state for themselves. But I must admit, it really is interesting that many sorcerers report not even accessing a specific state to reach their result when calling upon a spirit. The thing just… happens, with or without their drawing on mental resources, or perhaps doing so without their conscious knowledge. Both of which give my theory a run for its money. But that’s what I’m trying to learn more about.
There is a lot of interesting speculation to be done. But I want to draw in those capable of having this conversation, and really break down their understanding as best as possible, as to minimize that speculation with core elements of truth.
As always, love you Verdo. Thank you for every insight you offer
Just responded! Sorry, I legit posted this the day before I left for vacation, so I got sort of busy there for awhile. But I’m gonna keep up with it all as best I can!
That is indeed an age old question, one that I am still figuring out myself lol. I likely will for as long as I continue to walk this path. I may have more experience than some, but at the end of the day I am still very much a student myself, as I will be until death. It is important to remind myself that.
But, to answer your question to the best of my ability now, I think the true magic comes from the marriage of both aspects we have talked about. Both aspects alone have their limitations. The skill is limited by the confidence of the user, where the Gnosis is limited by the mental filter. However, whennyou manage to combine both in the moment during ritual, that seems to be the spark that starts the change we call magic.
To better illustrate where I am talking about, let’s pull my own work into the mix. Let’s say at the end of my current pathworking, the spirit I am working with labels me as a King. Well, that alone does absolutely nothing to shape my reality here, it is just something obscure I picked up from the experience. Now, let’s say I then find myself wanting to increase my income using magic to pay a bill. Sure, I can manifest money using a spell I have had success with in the past and be fine. But perhaps the approach I used in the past is not enough to get me in the mindset to manifest more than I did at that point in my life.
By bringing in the notion of being a king from my Gnosis, how I perceive the work changes. It is no longer about simply paying a bill, it is about bringing in enough resources to allow my" kingdom" to flourish, which could help to increase the chance of getting more than I was initially asking for. This would push me, perhaps unexpectingly, beyond a former limitation in my life. The work therefore would then be considered a success, as well as leaving me with a different perspective on the world around me than I might have in the past. As well as how to interact with it.
Once again though, they must be balanced and heavily examined for growth, as there are dangers they can come from it if they are not in my eyes. Interestingly enough, I find the creation of salt to be a great metaphor for it. Two substances that are limited in their properties alone (as well as toxic in the right circumstances) coming together in a bright blaze to bring a new substance into reality. But that is just my thoughts on it. I hope it makes some sense to you.
I don’t always get results, but I do more often now because I learned how to turn off my logical brain when doing anything related to the occult, be it pendulum, castings, etc…This has to be done at least while and immediately after casting, and any works, then you allow the logical brain to exert it’s influence and my logical brain knows not to lust for results, so I don’t. My left brain knows to believe and logical brain says to let it go, and trust the gods. It only works when I do things this way. There are times when real life stress can make this more difficult, and my magick fails.
Since I began learning magick, I was always taught to let go, and trust the gods, the logical brain really can get in the way of manifestation. One especially hard lesson for me, was not to be skeptical, and just believe it as if the manifestation has already occurred.
