Red Flags with Legitmate Spirits

Okay, so this spurred out from a trend I have observed in the forum. There seems to be three camps of thought here. The first is that spirits fall into the category of being either “good” or “evil”, with no gray area in between. The second is that spirits (especially of the demonic variety) are “good” and all negative experiences are due to parasites or imposters. Finally, the third camp is that all spirits are a mixed bag, with some being benvolent to some individuals and malevolent to others. This last one honestly makes the most sense, as i doubt any target of a curse involving spirits would consider their interactions with them as being pleasant.

There are many reasons for why these viewpoints exist, ranging from religious dogma (and not just from the Abrahamic faiths mind you) to the need to project how we view ourselves onto the spirits we work with (for example: if ones view themselves as an outcast and a good person, they expect demons must be good as they are outcasts too without actually getting to know them). It can easily cause confusion with those who have never worked with spirits, combine with all the other influences of media we came across in life. So, I decided to sit down with my wife and reflect on our collective 31 years of experience working with spirits (18 on hers, 13 on mine) to come up with this short list of things to look out for when working with spirits.

Before I begin, I am not talking about imposters or parasites with this post. While they do exist, and I had encounters with them in my early years, they are not the only sources of “negative spiritual experiences”. A legitimate spirit can just as easy screw the individual over as much as an imposter/parasite can, regardless of what “race” we are talking about. Just as there are people who may stab you in the back, there are spirits that will too. This list will be written with the assumption that these experiences accorded after means of protection were established within ritual.

Without further delay, this is the list we created of five red flags we keep an eye out for when working with spirits of any kind that can determine not to work with them:

1.) The Spirit Does Not Fulfill the Request

This is definitely one of the lesser red flags of the list, but one that is important. Honestly, if this is the only sign you get, then you are coming off lucky. If a spirit is not interested in working with you, it is pretty safe to assume they will not fulfill the request. That being said, there are many factors that can prevent an outcome you are desiring from coming forth and spirits are not as all powerful as many may think. So, if one or two requests are not met, I don’t necessarily write them off immediately. However, if it is more than two, it might be a good idea to look elsewhere for aid.

2.) Unreasonable Demands for Offerings and Pressure.

I’ve had only one spirit who has asked for things well beyond my means (Belial). If a spirit is asking for something you are not willing to give, you need to refuse. Usually, with spirits who you have a good relationship with, will take that refusal respectfully. If they do not and you are feeling fear or pressure to go through with something you are not willing to, that spirit needs to get the boot, end of story. Obviously really outrageous offerings that you would think only exist in Hollywood apply here as well, as I do not find something like blood of a priest on an altar being a reasonable offering (you would be surprised of the stories I have heard over the years).

3.) Threats and Attacks

This is a very big red flag to me and I have only allowed one spirit a pass (Belial, who talked fast and made sense very quickly). Normally, this is an excuse to give a spirit the boot immediately. The spirits we call upon are guests in our space and we are responsible for what happens in that space. If you would not allow a human to do that, why would you allow a spirit to?

4.) Their Reputation.

This is probably where I am going to get the most disagreements from others, but it is something that i do consider. Like many here, I have things and people in my life I want to keep safe, as much as I can at least. So, just as much as people look up background checks on people who they might have suspicions on, I look at the lore of new spirits I am considering to work with. While I am not saying what has been written down is completely true (or even a reason to rule out a spirit entirely). if it is something that has been repeated over the centuries, it is something worth pausing on. This is where practices such as divination can be helpful, as well as covering the basic means to protect yourself (shields, wards, cleansings, banishments, methods to evocate outside of temple area, etc).

5.) Changes in Mood/Health of the Individual/Other Senses.

This is one that is the most difficult to notice, as it requires self awareness and being honest. There are spirits that can influence our moods if we spend enough time with them, whether consciously or from the energy they gave off. When I was spending months working with Beelzebub, I felt physically ill for pretty much the entire duration of it. I also was very irritable during this time and my wife described my presence as being as peaceful as a stroll through a mine field. While it is really the only red flag I have with Beelzebub, it is something I have to keep in mind when working with him and need to do quite a bit of spiritual hygiene afterwards.
My wife, who has a very strong sense of clairalience as well as clairvoyance, will often be warned that a spirit is not one to work with by a smell of rotting flesh before actually calling them (usually like rotting chicken as she puts it. With people, it is more like rotting vegation). Mine is more of a sour sensation in my stomach prior to evocation, so there may be unique “warning signs” you will feel in your body that may be a sign to steer clear. There really is not a clear cut list, so you will have to find out by paying attention to yourself.

At the end of the day, there is no way to make spirit work 100% safe. It is a risk that comes with working with them, just as the risk of being betrayed is always present with working with people. However, if you are going to work with spirits, it is your responsibility with whatever is being brought into your life and to be honest with yourself. Things need to be constantly evaluated honestly, regardless of the type of relationship you have with the beings you call. Just as human relationships change, so do the ones with spirits (for better or for worse). This does not mean living in a constant state of anxiety, but one of being aware and honest with what is going on. Only then can you take on the role of the Operator and move towards your own best interests if you choose to work with spirits of any kind. If one is striving to become a god (whether a living one or one in the afterlife), this kind of responsibility is necessary in my eyes. A king who is blind to the matters and conditions of their kingdom is often not one for long.

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Well said, brother! :+1:

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5.) Changes in Mood/Health of the Individual/Other Senses .

I completely agree

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Thank you for this excellent and much-needed post.

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@Dralukmun you always explain things so thoroughly and patiently. I really appreciate your posts! Thank you for sharing.

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This is amazing! Thank you for posting this!!

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I love this quote.

So many people just roll for spirit x or imposter y without really asserting themselves in a way that sets boundaries, and makes it clear business needs to be done.

You can see this lack of boundaries with just a casual glance through the Spirits and Evocation part of the board. Which again opens people up to a lot of shit they could have otherwise avoided or nipped in the bud in the beginning.

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And thank you for the kind words :slight_smile: I am glad you enjoy them

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oh yeah, and that ultimately is a lesson I learned the hard way myself. It is not a pleasant route for sure. Just like with people, if one does not set boundaries with spirits (regardless of who they are), they will walk all over you. That is not a place of power, it is a place of enslavement. It is not a position i personally want to find myself in.

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This very helpful and insightful post is like a Christmas gift to the forum. Thank you very much for sharing both of your experiences and advice! Bookmarked not only for personal use, but for recommendation to others as well when needed. :slight_smile:

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You have explained this very well. Thank you.

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I just wanted to comment to bump this up for any new members we had join in the past 6 or so hours.

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Can i pm you if it’s ok? Cause I wanted ask something that kinda relates to this.

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Great words! This is useful and important information about work with spirits. Thank you for sharing!

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Yes, you certainly can.

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When I first met Dantalion this summer, I thought I had to basically bend over for him. I’ve never had a spirit command me the way he did. Basically, he’d say something like, “Go run your hands under cold water” and I’d go do it, no matter what it was.

Really embarrassing.

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Oh yeah, some spirits will make requests like that where there is no real harm to the individual, especially if it drives a point across (as well as possible amusement). I went through a similiar experience early on working with Sobek. With him, it was swearing mud made during ritual once a week. When i finally asked him what was the purpose of it after weeks of no effect, he simply said “None at all, I just wanted to see how long it would take for you to refuse”.

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Belial had done something similar to me.

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Just my take, but I view relationships with spirits just like any other relationship. If you roll over and take shit, you will get shit. You have to hold your spirit friends to account and demand the highest standards of them, which you should also give in return.

Obviously, there should be mutual respect, but this can only be built up with time as trust develops on both sides. As with every relationship, there are ups and downs and you have to work on it to make it work.

Sometimes, it’s like having children, pets, or a life partner. They will test you all the time and see how far they can go and what they can get away with. It is important to set boundaries and hold them to account if they stray or become unreliable.

I guess spirit psychologist or spirit relationship therapist might be good future careers to look into :grin:

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Yeah, that is why the old abrahamic idea of blind obedience to dogma channeled thousands of years ago was the “religion” sure, it doesn’t work or fulfill people spiritually, it just makes all the spiritual stuff go away until we are left with a depressing materialist atheism, but hey, then you don’t actually have to work on relationships with spirits, you can follow the rules, aka, don’t have any relationships, and who cares if you are miserable now, you are going to heaven later. (not that you actually want to go to some sucky heaven that basically sounds like non-existence, or merging with the source or whatever crap they think you are supposed to want. )

Sounds like the way my husband dealt with his career, the whole role over and take it, and that is why his career is in the toilet now, but I simply refused to put up with the shit aka, never started the relationships, and that is why my career is non-existent.

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