Question about demonic aspects

Okay so, I know who my godform is (or in my case it’s who THEY are), what they look like and where they come from and have already merged and whatnot, but like I never understood one thing about it. Why are they my godform as in, What determined that these entities ‘belonged’ to me and they are MY godform? The spirits are being very vague with their answers about this when I ask if they are ultimately assigned to us before we are even born by some higher ranking deity, or do these godforms just pick whatever human they feel would be the best ‘vessel’ for them as far as personality matching and stuff is concerned?

I wanna know, this is confusing me and it’s frankly quite irritating!

Also, the main reason I ask is because with my supposed demonic aspect someone attempted to connect with it and told me its name and what it looks like and frankly, it’s a fucking joke. Like, the form this thing appeared to this other person as is so stupid and childish it’s almost like an insult if my demonic aspect would look like that.

Do they reveal themselves to different people as different forms? Even if so, the fact that mine would even consider taking on such a stupid appearance to someone else, is like I said, insulting to say the least and really makes me wonder what in the heck could this thing possibly offer me that I would benefit from? If this person was right, that is. Like what makes it MY demonic aspect? I’d like to know because I cannot merge with something that I do not see as appealing to me.

I am very stubborn. My godform is cool as shit, and especially because of who created them, that alone is an honor in and of itself and it takes on traits and an appearance that I find to be really interesting and appealing. But what created this demonic aspect and why is it MINE? Because unless I find out that something really powerful and respectible created this thing and it’s just revealing itself to other people however it chooses to do so, then I want an exchange or something. LOL (no seriously, does this thing come with a warranty so it can be exchanged for something much cooler and much less like a stupid fucking cartoon?)

According to this other person’s description, it would probably scare a lot of people but I just can’t take it seriously.

oh and, I already viewed the other topics about this on here and they were so long and drawn out that I could not keep my focus and basically did not retain hardly anything I read.

Well, I can’t answer you this one, since godforms are not part of any paradigm I’ve worked with.

[quote=“RavensAscent, post:1, topic:7391”]Also, the main reason I ask is because with my supposed demonic aspect someone attempted to connect with it and told me its name and what it looks like and frankly, it’s a fucking joke. Like, the form this thing appeared to this other person as is so stupid and childish it’s almost like an insult if my demonic aspect would look like that.

Do they reveal themselves to different people as different forms? Even if so, the fact that mine would even consider taking on such a stupid appearance to someone else, is like I said, insulting to say the least and really makes me wonder what in the heck could this thing possibly offer me that I would benefit from? If this person was right, that is. Like what makes it MY demonic aspect? I’d like to know because I cannot merge with something that I do not see as appealing to me.[/quote]

Any entity conjured/evoked/etc. is going to be filtered through the operator. We project our expectations onto the world and the people we meet in it; spirits are no exception. There’s nothing obligating you to accept what your friend told you. It’s their interpretation, after all.

[quote=“RavensAscent, post:1, topic:7391”]I am very stubborn. My godform is cool as shit, and especially because of who created them, that alone is an honor in and of itself and it takes on traits and an appearance that I find to be really interesting and appealing. But what created this demonic aspect and why is it MINE? Because unless I find out that something really powerful and respectible created this thing and it’s just revealing itself to other people however it chooses to do so, then I want an exchange or something. LOL (no seriously, does this thing come with a warranty so it can be exchanged for something much cooler and much less like a stupid fucking cartoon?)

According to this other person’s description, it would probably scare a lot of people but I just can’t take it seriously.[/quote]

Have you tried calling it yourself? If it’s supposed to be imposing, it stands to reason that it wouldn’t appear the same to everyone. I think jumping spiders are utterly adorable, but I know someone who gets goosebumps just looking at a photo of one.

I understand completely, but there may be helpful information in them that you’re missing out on, since it’s unlikely someone will want to write up the same long explanation twice.

Maybe YOU belong to them.

http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/mastering-soul-travel-omnipresence/what-are-the-benefits-of/

I touch on this there. Little You is an impression,a footprint made byby Big You. A sliver of what it is made real. This is a crude generalization, since everyone’s godform is different,but what makes you your godform’s is that you already are a small part of it.

We aren’t becoming gods,we’re remembering our own godhood. Breakthrough moments don’t feel like major steps so much as “wow if only I knew I could do this before” or “wow I actually feel like I’ve always known this”. Like when answering on a test with answers you already know the answer to.

If your godform is not engaged then it will be no more aware of you than you are of your own cells. Sure you know they’re there,reproducing,growing,doing things, but you don’t actively know them. And sometimes their lives pass in the blink of an eye for you.

Same holds true for your godform. They’re not aware if you until you engage them. When their essence floods you,you get closer to them. Merge with them and you are its avatar. See the merging through to the end and you will be it.

Your godform isn’t assigned to you,no,you’re already a drop from it. Time to become the ocean.

And you are the godform for countless smaller mini aspects of you just as your godform is a Little You to an even Bigger You. There are very few situation where it is necessary for the Bigger One to interact with the smaller one. Fewer still where it won’t overpower the runt.

This is one of the reasons godform dynamics can drive you insane,and are considered at the far edge of magic. Your entire notion of “you” falls apart when you realize aspects of you are within other things, other things are within you,you’re composed of a million aspects,and you’re a millionth aspect of a bigger whole,and Little You is at the center of the pyramid,the pyramid stretches infinitely I’m both directions and the entire pyramid is your notion of “You” which is everything.

Intense,right? :wink:

It feels to me that “godforms” are pretty much like the LHP version of the “higher self” concept in RHP and new-age thought. Is there an actual qualitative difference between the two? Because as its being described by people, they really, really seem like the same thing, with just a darker tint on the “godform”.

Especially how Arcane is describing it, the concept hes talking about Ive seen mirrored pretty much exactly by new-age / RHP people, just explained slightly differently. Its a very Eastern philosophy which the new age borrows a great deal from, and “drop becomes the ocean”, “big you little you”, “merging”, etc, are certainly expressions I have seen used before, however not in an LHP context.

So Im not attacking anyone here, but Im really just wondering what exactly we are talking about, because it sounds essentially exactly the same as what I have heard a billion times on other forums about higher selves and in my opinion is striding dangerously close to the “we are all one” theme, which I presumed was antithetical to the LHP which has individuation as one of its core tenets.

Are we who we are now and in the process of becoming greater as individuals, or are we really just a small piece of an unfathomably giant scattered collective where everyone is actually everyone else? Because the latter is pretty much pure new-age / RHP / Buddhist philosophy from what I can tell. (And I know someone is going to be tempted to say “its both”, but thats just another mark in the RHP / new-age column IMO.)

Not judging. Just trying to get a grip on what we are actually talking about so I can make an informed comment on the actual thread topic.

Caveat: I am posting this under the influence of alcohol but I want to weigh in so please filter accordingly if my post gets a little hazy.

I liked Arcane’s post and think what he said transcends RHP or LHP. Anyone who has read stuff like Ken Wilber’s “Spectrum of Consciousness” or “Brief History of Everything” may be familiar with his concept/definition of the term “holon”, which is basically that the individual human form and consciousness is just one aspect of a greater multidimensional being that is THE SAME BEING SPREAD THROUGHOUT MULTI-DIMENSIONS. In other words, Raven the human is a cell in the body of a greater Raven that is beyond the comprehension of her human consciousness, which isn’t necessarily the same as the “we are all one” new age fluff, that I don’t necessarily disbelieve but am not interested in either at this time. It would be better if I had my books handy as I could quote exactly what Wilber says and what I’m trying to convey in my mentally inebriated state. The “Godforms” may merely be outer-dimensional aspects of herself that are more powerful than her human form that she cannot humanly fully understand or comprehend. Does that make sense?

It does, but how is that different from the new-age concept of “higher self”? They sound incredibly similar, if not exactly the same, with only a change in wording between them.

Again Im just looking for clarification here, not to attack anyone.

Well, per my own concept of the term “higher self”, that has always been symbolic of a personal “daemon” or some hidden part of my own psyche or what Thelemites refer to as the HGA, Holy Guardian Angel, etc.

A holon, on the other hand is more of a hard metaphysical concept than a more “spiritual” new age concept but unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no empirical evidence to demonstrate either. A holon is more of a hierarchical structure that maybe I should just link to a definition.

A holon is probably a concept that individuals who have undergone a mind expanding psychedelic experience may be intuitively able to grasp as it can be somewhat ineffable and transcend language and words but is more of a gnostic experience.

Imagine an antique at a garage sale which is worth a pretty penny. Most people will only see it as junk, but a savy collector will recognize it as something amazing. The difference between the collector and the average person is that for the collector, that knowledge is already part them. The collectors recognize a tiny piece of themselves in those objects.

Same way the afore mentioned antiques reveal themselves to people.

Thats more or less what I see the higher self concept as. I would refine it a bit more and call it a “preferred potential” though; something that does not exist objectively, but something that we strive to make exist objectively by realizing that potential ourselves, and becoming the embodiment of it.

However I am in a minority with that point of view. Most people believe the higher self is actually some external entity that they need to “merge” with, and a particularly odd perspective is that its actually the individual in the future communicating with their past selves (enter: yarn ball of time travel).

This is where I am seeing the similarities between the new age concept of the higher self, and the LHP “godform” as its being described to me. Im having a hard time trying to see the actual difference between the two concepts, save that one has a darker slant put on it.

They both still seem to be pertaining to this concept of merging your consciousness with an external entity though, “becoming” it, but that entity is actually already you, but not really, but if you look at it sideways it is, but its autonomous and has its own agenda, but for some reason it is actually a fragment of you that has been desynchronized from its other parts, which are also all you, etc, which basically allllllll boils down to at the end of the day, “we are all one”.

I dunno, thats just how I see it. I dont believe that version though; it makes no logical sense to me. No one has ever been able to explain it logically to me either on forums where Ive encountered these beliefs before. At least not with logic that actually follows itself.

I have a strong belief in what I call continuity of consciousness, and the objective existence of autonomous higher selves detached from you would necessarily mean there was a discontinuity of consciousness, otherwise they would not be detached, nor autonomous in the first place. It would take a long time to explain why, and the OP probably didnt have an academic debate on the validity or the nature of godforms in mind when she posted this, so Ill not continue any more than I already have because it probably wouldnt be helpful.

The higher self oversees the individual.

It reports to the godform.

If the higher self is your boss at work, the godform is the owner of the business.

The godform is a higher octave of the individual, the higher self is the lower individual’s watchman.

The godform is, generally speaking, stronger than the higher self.

Putting it simply, the godform is the step above the higher self. It is the next greatest on the spiritual chain of command inside of the individual.

in my opinion is striding dangerously close to the "we are all one" theme

How do you figure?

Are we who we are now and in the process of becoming greater as individuals, or are we really just a small piece of an unfathomably giant scattered collective where everyone is actually everyone else? Because the latter is pretty much pure new-age / RHP / Buddhist philosophy from what I can tell. (And I know someone is going to be tempted to say "its both", but thats just another mark in the RHP / new-age column IMO.)

That’s the answer, though. Its both. Species are like a hive; there’s one massive entity that is the sum total of the entire species, but each individual part has different consciousness. The same could be said for many entities. You’re you, and part of the hive of humanity.

Why do you “mark both as RHP/new-age”?

Good question (folks, let me know if you want this bit turned into its own topic btw) - here’s a post I made that covers where I stand with it right now:

“Left-Hand Path,” “Right-Hand Path,” And Definitions

I’m not feeling wordy right now but I have a lot to say on this, basically the point at which I realised that what I term theogenesis was possible, was after having “merger” experiences, and realising that there was no moral imperative forcing me to completely merge back and dissolve my own individuality, nor was there any moral absolute, meaning, or over-arching philosophy of “truth” anywhere in the cosmos - there is No Thing whatsoever, except what lies “back of, and behind” my own awareness, spinning out universes with its mind.

Edit to add, you might find this interesting as well:

The Secrets Of The Power Eye

I have been meaning to post one of my essay things on the nature of merging in the Left Hand Path.And it is an interesting discussion.At its base,though,there is a notion that we are all inseparable from each other,different aspects of the same super…thing.

If you want me to put it into further perspective,gods aren’t truly individuals.They are all comprised of their own aspects(Hecate as the Maiden,the Midwife and the Crone),in the same sense that all of the Greek gods are just aspects of one merged entity,which can be summoned like any other.

The question is not whether you are a part of everyone else,but whether you’re in control.Whether you submit to the notion that ‘‘OK I’m super weak compared to all other sides of me so I’ll just stay in my place and do X,Y,and Z’’,or whether you’ll recognize this,and establish your limits.

How much autonomy are you willing to give your individual aspects,just as how autonomous are you compared to the rest of things?And after establishing those limits,use the interconnectedness to your advantage,to isolate your Universe,and Subjective Reality from COmmon Observation.

Refine it,and change the world.Not your world,the world.

That is the goal of the Left Hand Path,should you choose to walk it.Make yourself,and your world as awesome as it can be.Aim for the stars,do weird things,so that your actions become tales of power to those without,and(should you choose to) just die.And do what you want with your afterlife,since you’re in control of that too.

And I agree with what Velotak says about Higher Selves,and godforms,as it clicks with my own experiences and UPGs.

Isn’t an unmerged godform more RHP-y than a merged one?

If I am a Right Hand Path-y mystic,who falls madly in love with a woman who shrugs him off,I can say that it was my Higher Self,pushing her away because she wasn’t the right one.Not knowing with certainty,but saying that a Bigger Me has a plan for me,and a path laid out for me,and that I should put all of my power into its hands,so it can guide me to happiness.

But with no contact with this Higher Self,I will never know for certain and operate purely on belief.And if I do have contact with this Higher Self,but haven’t merged with it,then how can its will be my will?That of the present me,versus a greater picture.

Having merged with your godform,the path becomes clear.If it isn’t you can know it better just by asking yourself.And know with certainty that it will be your will,because it is what you will want.Not because you’ve incinerated your will to make way for your godform,and not because it has incinerated its will to make way for yours.Instead,they just merged.

And ‘‘we are all one’’ holds true.That one experiencing itself in a myriad of different direction,as different things.As above,so bellow,each one of those directions,an individual,is forming their own little bubble,as the epicenters of their subjective universes,which intersect to form shared observations,and the common observation.

Like I said,I plan to post a bit more lenghtily on both the nature of godforms,and the nature of mergings in the Left Hand Path,but I’m still here to intervene because the topic presents itself as a cool and interesting one.

Yes - “We are all One” in the RHP means that we have to be pacifists, treading softly in the world and not listening to our egos, nor our desires, putting others first, and ultimately despising our current personalities and lives as a fallen or illusory state.

Whereas, “We are all One” on the LHP means that we’re creating our own reality, and can (as an extreme example) delete people from it with no more conscience than you would have over trimming a toenail that had grown too long.

It’s yours - your reality, your creation. It takes a degree of basic psychological stability to believe that, and yet function in the world by its ways in everyday life, but we have the option to use magick to smooth the rough edges of our interactions with people, and their institutions.

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well the reason I was so confused when I asked my allies, so who created my godform, was it assigned to me, or just always there and it’s up to me to recognize them and so on? I was told, in essence you created your godform and it created you. So of course that is confusing! I asked for an explanation and was told it cannot be explained because it’s something that the human mind simply cannot comprehend and that I must use my own judgment, form my own opinions, and see where my intuition leads as to the “where does it all come from” questions.

That’s such a cop-out… I’m sorry, I’m sure your friends are lovely people, but it is.

I do agree that you should come to your own conclusions about what a godform is to you, that part is good advice… But I feel like if they should have been able to give you a better explanation of their own beliefs.

I disagree. Abstract knowledge isn’t always something that can be placed in a concrete box to be conveniently explained and understood by the human brain and mind. For example, an ant is crawling up a guitar string. How does a human explain to an ant that it is crawling up this thing called a guitar? How does someone with a PHD in mathematics explain polynomial and rational functions to a first grader who is just learning how to add and subtract elementary numbers?

Just like an ant to a human, the human brain is on the level of baby poop compared to what are likely some astounding non-human intelligences out there.

[quote=“Bbylon, post:16, topic:7391”]That’s such a cop-out… I’m sorry, I’m sure your friends are lovely people, but it is.

I do agree that you should come to your own conclusions about what a godform is to you, that part is good advice… But I feel like if they should have been able to give you a better explanation of their own beliefs.[/quote]

No, my friend didn’t tell me that! Why in the hell why I ask a friend about a serious question like that instead of using my own intuition, I’m not a newbie here I don’t need clarification from everyone. You are getting confused. I was exploring the demonic thing and a friend suddenly emails me and says he had a vision of what he believes it may look like and I said, well that’s kind of disappointing I was hoping it would look much cooler and the friend says, well yeah but keep in mind if this is the being that I saw in my vision, it may have just been revealing itself to me how I wanted to see it or how it felt I would best comprehend it.

Separately, I asked one of my allies a few days prior to that conversation with this friend and was told by my ally, not by my friend “that you created it and it created you” and I asked for a much deeper explanation and was told I could give you the information but it’s something that most human minds are unable to comprehend and understand because it involves mechanics that would be seen by the majority of things that defy reality as we know it. And I did ask this ally for further clarification which he answered, but it really was something that confused me so I just stopped right there and was like WTF?

So, no I’m not relying on a friend of mine to tell me “where babies from come or how the universe works” LOL. I just happened to mention demonic aspect to this person and they contacted me later on and said they may have seen a vision of it and I did ask, you’re fucking with me right? Not because it was really a joke, just because I hoping it would reveal itself to me in a different way (if this person did in fact get a visual of the right aspect, and the one that I belong to) because I wanted something much cooler that resonated with me.

I don’t want swamp thing, I want something cool that makes me think oh okay, I see why I am the perfect mirror for it. With my godform, now I can see why it was mine (or why I am theirs) because our traits line up nicely and other things about it just feels right and matches up. So I was just curious what others had to say, if your demonic aspect operates similar to your godform or slightly different. Because I didn’t even know about that other stuff, but every day I keep getting hit with new aspects of myself that I’m supposed to seek out and I’m like damn, does this go on to infinity? Like what’s next…have you identified and merged with your pizza hut topping aspect? LOL

I disagree. Abstract knowledge isn’t always something that can be placed in a concrete box to be conveniently explained and understood by the human brain and mind. For example, an ant is crawling up a guitar string. How does a human explain to an ant that it is crawling up this thing called a guitar? How does someone with a PHD in mathematics explain polynomial and rational functions to a first grader who is just learning how to add and subtract elementary numbers?

Just like an ant to a human, the human brain is on the level of baby poop compared to what are likely some astounding non-human intelligences out there.[/quote]

Well, I thought we were talking about human beings, but still…

I don’t see myself as an ant on a guitar string. I think if anyone, human or spirit, understand something well enough, they should be able to explain it in a way where someone completely divorced from whatever the topic is should understand, at least on a very abstract level.

There’s a great book called “How Not to Be Wrong” by Jordan Ellenberg. It explains advanced mathematical concepts in a way that a layman can understand. If I call on a spirit, and they can’t give that subject the same treatment, I call on another.

If they tell me something along the lines of, “Well… In order to understand that, you first need to understand these things…” then that’s fine, but I don’t see that as a non-answer.

I can relate a bit to Babylon… however, I will say that after working with a certain entity an getting the whole “a human mind could not fathom the mechanics of such” an me being a bit of a stubborn student replied with… how do you know… try me type of a response… I must say I was not prepared for the “challenge accepted” lol… I honestly thought I’d never come back to my cozy Lil human mind reality again… actually… even though it has subsided considerably I’m still sure I’m not back fully an I doubt I ever will be. With that being said… no I do not believe that a “human” can ever fully grasp such things without it staining the very fabric of your perceived illusion you call reality without you either going absolutely mad an either not being able to function ie sitting in a corner babbling to yourself or at best being forever changed an able to teeter on an illusion of sanity with the aid of the very beings that pulled you down that rabbit hole completely in awe at how some things do not have a human vocabulary to express such… just my Alice 2 cents :wink: