Prayer vs Evocation

I was wondering…
Is prayer and completing a ritual the same thing? You are asking the diety for something to be completed on your behalf, right?
Would you not get the same results if you chose one over the other?

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Trance helps with both. and they are kinda the same.

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Yes, prayer or invocation can be a ritual in itself.
Take the Catholic sign of the Cross for example, or the Mormon Melchezedek prayer over the communion water, or hymns for that matter.
Look at the Charismatic/Pentecostal/Nondenominational churches, and the pattern of woven hands, dancing, etc.

All of it is a ritual.
Even meditation or thought.

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Prayer can be considered a kind of petition ritual itself. They’re effectively identical if approached with the right mindset – neither ritual nor prayer should be about begging an entity for an outcome. So as long as you’re approaching prayer with the same mindset of requesting something, convincing yourself it’s already done/inevitable, and then avoiding lust for result, you’re good. :ok_hand:

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Theoretically the religious person asks and the magician commands, besides acting like a doctor who doesn’t pray for an illness to go away but instead acts upon it. But indeed religions also contain a part of magick and this is the “cosmic religion”.

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I understand.
Will going to the entity everyday for something considered begging? Or can it be interpreted that you are trying to remain hopeful and decrease the doubt and lust for results?
Please excuse my ignorance, I am stuck with a situation and your response struck me. I want to make sure that my approach to this is accepted and whether I should keep trying or just let it go.
Hence the question: do you keep asking for something by prayer or complete a ritual and forger about it?

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I’ve done both. There’s been a few entities I become fascinated with so I called them fairly regularly to make contact and just “chat” and reiterate my interest in working with them for a goal. Other entities I’m one-and-done; summon or petition them and then let it be.

Begging is begging. It’s a different vibe to simply making contact with an entity and reaffirming your goal, vs. calling them every day because you’re doubting the working and asking for some sign of progress. If you feel desperate, that’s usually not a good place to start from. Aim for confidence, not desperation.

I’ve also done things like simply leaving offerings out for entities with no particular end goal in mind, just when the mood strikes me. Like I might brew a cup of tea for Dantalion and leave it out for him on my altar, or I’ll offer incense for Hekate.

Once I made offerings of incense, sliced oranges, and sparkling wine (on and off, no particular schedule) to Bune for about three weeks, without formally asking anything or seeking any kind of meaningful contact with her. When I finally did petition her, I got results overnight.

It depends on the relationship you have with the spirit and what feels right to you. :slight_smile:

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Some great nuggets to internalize…
Thank You.

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Good luck dear :blush: :bouquet: