No circles

In all my channeling, enokings and invokings I have worked with circles 3 times in my life. This I find more respectful to the calling what are your thoughts

Depends on the system I’m working at the time. Sometimes I use one, sometimes I don’t.

Usually I use one when working with more Western (Golden Dawn influenced) ritual magick. If I’m using Oriental/Vedic tech I usually don’t.

I don’t see workings as system but I do understand what you mean. Magic to me is will, no circle no tools but ones thrust of will into creation!

[quote=“NariusV, post:2, topic:3738”]Depends on the system I’m working at the time. Sometimes I use one, sometimes I don’t.

Usually I use one when working with more Western (Golden Dawn influenced) ritual magick. If I’m using Oriental/Vedic tech I usually don’t.[/quote]

Western ritual magic is not “Golden Dawn influenced”; “modern” magic is. The “Golden Dawn” is itself mostly made-up modern nonsense that just happens to be a little bit older than the mutated New Age fairy crap and Chaos Magic mental masturbation.

‘Respectful’, i.e. you disrespect God and yourself by playing second-fiddle to a bunch of rebellious spirits. I’m not criticising you personally: I’ve been that eclectic modern idiot myself, so anyone thinking about it can spare me the lines about “it works” and “Christian propaganda”, because I know first-hand all the self-delusions involved in convincing oneself of the efficacy of something that barely works half of the time.

Oh, sure, these spirits will always give you just enough of a taste of undeniable ‘miracles’ when it suits their whims to keep you running back to them like a piece of string wrapped about a demonic finger.

[quote=“Poete Maudit, post:4, topic:3738”][quote=“NariusV, post:2, topic:3738”]Depends on the system I’m working at the time. Sometimes I use one, sometimes I don’t.

Usually I use one when working with more Western (Golden Dawn influenced) ritual magick. If I’m using Oriental/Vedic tech I usually don’t.[/quote]

Western ritual magic is not “Golden Dawn influenced”; “modern” magic is. The “Golden Dawn” is itself mostly made-up modern nonsense that just happens to be a little bit older than the mutated New Age fairy crap and Chaos Magic mental masturbation.[/quote]

For clarification (in case anyone was confused), I was referring to using a circle when using techniques influenced by the Golden Dawn practices of the last century or so.

What do you label Western ritual magick?

I sometimes use a Square…
Ritual spaces and the Germanic (specially in the Langobardic) Regions were made as Squares of 4 trees or like a Raft.
I use it do make a confined space so i don’t have to charge a whole Forest.

What I use depends on what I’m doing, and for evocations that includes whether I’ve already created a link with the entity and have a good working relationship and/or pact in place.

For a lot of work I use a black cowskin which represents Auðumbla, the primeval cow of Norse mythology. It becomes the cosmos, during ritual.

The purpose is to symbolically support the alignment of my consciousness in a line stretching “back” to the formless Source and “forwards” into the manifestation of my will, with my intention as the lens through which the formless becomes form.

The cowskin doesn’t have any symbols or anything marked on it - and for evocations, in place of a triangle, I use an unmarked black hexagon of thick craft card, again with no markings on it.

I place the seven elements representing the seven classical planets round the outside of the cowskin, not as a “circle” but to further mirror the unfolding from source into matter (for Mercury, I’m limited to an old thermometer, but one day I’ll get round to buying a decent sized vial of the liquid metal, and for the rest I have small amounts of the purest possible gold, silver, tin, etc.). I also have four stones which symbolically through their shape and colouring represent the four elements - I acquired these years ago and prefer them to using actual water, fire etc., in this specific set-up.

I’ve been using this cowskin & elements arrangement since around the end of 2012, and the hexagon for the last couple of months (prior to that I was using a slice of agate) with excellent results.

It reflects my cosmogony, and years of gnoses and sunesis, pretty much everything I’ve learned so far.

I don’t use a circle for evocation or manifestation because I’m interested in concepts of formless infinity, and not the many things that circle represents, all of which begin to have names, forms, qualities, opposites, and definitions that come from places other than my own mind in this incarnation.

Circles obviously work, and have their uses, and I draw a circle sometimes when I’m doing healing work or something of that nature - it’s down to what your practices, methods and intentions for the work are, and the effectiveness of anything is best gauged by your results.

I have a solid intention of commanding the powers of a goddess within my lifetime, and this set-up is based on that overall goal.

If I’m just retrieving stuck energy from someone to heal them, it’s less necessary to have all the elements, the planets and the formless involved in that work. :slight_smile:

TBH, i’m a noob and haven’t even succesfully evoked anything for my eyes to see - but i have never understood what is the point of the circle… so haven’t really tried using it either.

pretty much circle in a nutshell

I quit using a circle about a year ago. I was one of those “must have a circle or the consequences could be dire” magicians. I basically worked through Evoking Eternity and decided to simplify my ways of going about things.

My set up is a lazy boy recliner, a coffee table, huge incence censor, a triangle on the back of a sponge bob place mat. And some candles. I do spend money on my incense and provide proper resin and candle colors.

I have had more paranormal activity using a circle and usual set up after rituals than without one.

Either way hasn’t deterred me from having a conversation, in fact I’m more focused in my lazy boy than fidgeting on a yoga mat.

King, how do your results shape up compared to not using a circle?

I’m not sure if I’m reading you right, and while it’s none of my business, I’m not sure dispensing with circles (or other methods of creating a sacred/empowered space) is always wise unless you have a good reason and get better results by not doing it?

I’m far from being a “let’s mindlessly adhere to tradition” person, but some traditions have a purpose, and throwing them away just so you don’t get a sore bum or whatever :o) … dunno, make sure that what you’re doing actually WORKS.

Circles aren’t automatically disrespectful or whatever - while I don’t go in for the “work using authority from godnames and compel demons by use of force” route, there are things like the Universal Circle, something which was actually given BY demons, for use in evocation, and some form of delineating a sacred space is used in almost every traiditoon - maybe not circular, and the intent behind it varies, but the concept of consecrated space remains the same.

No point chucking the baby out with the bathwater! :wink:

In all honesty it depends on what system I’m using. I did my first evocation with Crowleys goetia. Moved to Duqette’s format of the Enochian system. All of that was by the books as I could get. I just felt silly wearing all the regulia, robes and rings, etc. (Do you know how hard it is to find an almond tree with a straight branch?) My results sucked! I still had to study twice as hard and I never won anything off the lottery worth mentioning and I never had girls falling ovetme at the club everytime I went. Frustration set in, then I found spirits leading me on with just enough to keep me coming back. I fell for the trap, plain and simple.

So I starting experimenting, my hotel robe became my favorite hoody, my rings were always paper. My ex gf and I experimented a lot, except she was a die hard by the book wiccan and I couldn’t stand it. I studied art history and anthropology in college, hypnotism soon followed. So being by the book was my nature. Looking in symbiotics and brainwave patterns coupled with music and psychedelics made it all click that all of it was in your head if you can build the proper archetypes.

Then I read Evoking Eternity. Koetting simplified it so much! By this time I had pretty much given up on magic but always wondered why the book stores had a lengthy collection?

So I went through the pathworking expecting money sex and power, once again. By this time balg had started and the divination course was on its way. I think it was metatron or enkidorat that I had my first wow moment. Then I felt like I didn’t need all of the tools courses and ego meandering. Results can and I found a way to measure them, now I just hone my skills.

If I am doing a group working, I use circles and stuff. By myself not so much.

Not to mention I altered my house to suit the needs of this kind of work.

I still can’t astral project and lucid dream like I want but I’m probably buy the course on that one.

If you see something I’m doing wrong I am always open to learn new things…

No, not really, and I’m not like some kind of exp[ert, especially on comparing systems since I’ve only used my own for prolonged periods of time - I got into this stuff before I’d read any real grimoires and had to come up with my own system because of that.

I think so long as your results didn’t take a nosedive then you’ve got it covered.

So not much to add there, sorry… I’m still working this stuff out, the cowskin was a result of UPG and then the hexagon’s new, that was only suggested earlier this year, and I get good results but right now I’ve intentionally limited myself to only trying for things I personally find believable, and which have an existing and credible possible route to appear in my life. I’m hitting a higher rate of success by placing these limitations on my work.

There are a few exceptions, but worldly stuff like money etc., those are my guidelines, but it’s a work in progress and I’m not suggesting they’re the correct ones, nor that anyone else should adopt them.

I feel ya, I started out quite opposite than you. When I actually started practicing I read all the grimoires and filled my head with the usual blinds it was pretty let down by my first experience (s)… plus I was so arm chair I could have written a best seller.

I cultivated many techniques from this forum and google. Actually my results have snow balled compared to my early journal entries. I just found a way that worked for me.

I mean I got some cool stuff off spirits but nothing as profound as what’s already written. And I’m still learning so I may have something and not even know it. So I feel you about adopting other people techniques. Could be good or bad

I can tell you how I do things can lead to mental institutions if not careful. To me the use of tools is to separate yourself from your reality to perceive aspects of another. You start bluring the lines people do notice and if you are not careful deem you socially unacceptable. Real talk.

My advice would be to take breaks and not freak out when weird shit goes down.

I’m gearing up for my first evocation, and initially, I wasn’t planning on using any circles. They have no meaning for me personally, especially the ones with symbols that I have no idea what they mean. I tend to think if something has no meaning for you personally, it has no power. Sure, I could take the time to build that personal meaning, but in this particular instance, that’s just not my style.

Then it occurred to me there are circles I’m familiar with which do have meaning to me. In particular, the Venn Diagram. Usually two circles intersecting, denoting two different elements with a common shared area. That’s perfect for a fucking evocation!

One circle representing me, the other circle representing the entity I want to commune with, and the common overlap area is the place where we meet.

Now I’m no expert on evocation, but I’m thinking a Venn Diagram would be just as good if not better than any circle of Solomon. At least for me it is, because the power is not in the circle, it’s in you. All those props are just to help you focus your attention.