Magick versus Tony Robins

Hey Asbjorn. As always, I liked your last video (the Aberdeen seminar). It seems like you don’t believe that magick as it has historically been understood is real. Wouldn’t it be simpler just to take a Tony Robins, positive thinking approach to your teaching? How do you convince yourself to use systems that aren’t real?

Sure id say it hasn’t been understood, today we have the ability to (with my own formula outlined in my work of course) and a lot of folks still don’t seem to understand magick. My views on what magick is are vastly different than most in these communities, but the underlying understanding of what it is and how it works is totally different than how we see it. You don’t need to understand every inch of the car in order to drive it, you just need to know how to drive it. Same with magick, understanding it and doing it are two different things.


At the end of the day, your understanding may prove to be correct. But to call it “magick” seems to be a bit odd given how that word is normally understood. It would be like all of a sudden using the word ‘biology’ to refer to what is normally called ‘astronomy’. It’s just not helpful. It would be more helpful just to say, “Magick and the supernatural is fake. To have a better life, just learn to relax your mind, think positive, educate yourself in the fields of study that interest you and trust your gut instinct. Oh, and be outgoing with people.” I can buy into that. But for me to act like a certain type of magick (let’s say Hatian Voodon) is “real” when I know that it’s not? I envy those who can do that. But there is no way I can pull that off. I should just buy your book to see how you do that. I don’t think that it is within my abilities.

Harken unto Me, jboy.

Belief is so rhp. Knowledge is our path.

When I was a physical member of a rhp Magickal Order I was known as Thomas – Doubting Thomas. To doubt is the beginning of lhp wisdom. I commend and condemn you equally.

Study Sigils and Sigilization. Perform this Magick and keep scrupulous, handwritten notes in your Magickal Journal. Pure lhp. No deities involved. This shit works, so what’s your problem? Well maybe you need to read up, practice and actually do something.

Study Taro decks online. Find one that really calls to you. There are many, so take your time. Buy a string-pull bag and cloth upon which to lay your cards, both of natural fibre: cotton or silk and favourites. Purchase your deck. Store cards wrapped in natural cloth inside natural cloth bag. Couldn’t be simpler.

At the beginning of each day take a card and gaze upon it until you can see it in your mind’s eye with eyes closed. Throughout the day call up the card in your mind’s eye. At the end of your day record anything that you thought important in your journal. Before bed, gaze upon the card. Again, call it up into your mind’s eye before sleep. Record dreams or lack thereof in your journal. It may take you a few days a card to call in and workout the energies each card represents. Don’t read the shitty book that comes with the deck or buy any book of interpretations. For the 22 cards of the Major arcana work out these yourself. (Let me know after you’re finished with Atu I, The Magician – Mercury.) That’s only two cards.

Get yourself a translation in the I Ching and three special coins. After washing with water and drying, keep these in a small, all natural material bag. Keep notes. The I Ching should keep you going the rest of your life - maybe.

Now that’s enough to keep you for some time. Or look up the various posts about Elhaz which are on this site and adopt the position. Once you start gathering and directing energy your doubts will start fading. If you think Magick and our path is just fucking mind-games and manipulating mind patterns - you couldn’t be more wrong.

So why not actually do something and find out?



It all depends on what your definition of magick is, without that words are often misunderstood.

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Thanks. I’ll give it a try.

Hey jboy,

Here’s a little prayer, just for you.

“Oh Self that I seek to Become, open Your mysteries to me. Rejoice in steps to overcome that which hinders me, bless my serenity in accepting that which I must suffer to change me and energise my magical curiosity that I may know the difference. Let my view extend beyond time and space!
“Hail, My Self-to-Be!”

So write that prayer in your Magickal Journal, learn it by heart and deliver it with passion - from yourself to Yourself. Keep notes of any effects in said journal. Or couldn’t you be bothered?

P.s. ‘I wot that I hung on the wind-tossed tree all of nights nine, wounded by spear, bespoken to Odhinn, bespoken myself to Myself, upon that tree of which none telleth from what roots it doth rise.’

Tony Robbins has glaringly white, artificial teeth and epitomises atheistic Magick. His programmes work, especially for him. He lives as a God on Earth!


Thanks Uncle Al.

What he does works. I just don’t find it helpful to call it magick. I think it’s better described as just living positively and making smart choices.


When you’ve made as much money and have as many disciples as Tony Robbins you’ll more than apprehend that “Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will.” Don’t confuse ritual or ceremony with Magick.



This is a valid observation, but by logical inference suggests Tony Robbins is a more powerful magician than most of us here - since he has more money and more followers. I have no problem with this, other than in suggesting Mr Robbins is certainly not a magician.

Correct, as I assume that’s what he was after. Mind you, if your Magick is all incense, wands and robes then Tony Robbins isn’t a Magician.


I guess my main point is that using the word “magick” to refer to what psychologists talk about and what Tony Robins practices does not seem useful or particularly helpful.

Correct, but money and followers are still great measures. And to all of those experts who deny Tony Robbins’ Magickal ability and talk vaguely about Magick by referring to what psychologists talk about (or what veterinary surgeons or telephone technicians define as Magick) what is your definition of Magick? I adhere to Crowley’s because it’s accurate. Don’t blithely state Magick refers to what psychologists talk about - whatever that is and who cares? - but your definition of Magick.



I would disagree. Don’t get me wrong enlightenment and knowledge while important is pointless if it doesn’t go somewhere. If you spend ten years studying magick but have nothing to show for it what was the point?

The entire reason most people do magick is to create a measurable difference in there life. Many of the reasons people stop practicing is because they see no results. Sure spiritual experiences, knowledge and what not is all great, but if that doesn’t lead to a measurable difference in your day to day life then its a distraction and not a skill. The reason we do what we do is to make a difference. Thats not to say material things are the only thing that matters but it is a huge factor in why people do it.

If anyone studies more than a few years and seen nothing, gained nothing that they could hold in their hand and measure, they wouldn’t continue. Things like a new job, extra money, love, etc can all be measured in that material sense.

Hell one of the reasons I do magick is because i can see an intrinsic, physical and beneficial difference in my mundane life.


Especially followers. Where attention goes the energy flows. Tony Robbins influence and his ability to bring it to bear go far beyond money. That is why I would agree that he is a powerful magician of sorts, just not in the context most people here appreciate. Life itself is magick, and material wealth and influence is one possible aspect of life.

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Crowley defined blowing one’s nose as an act of Magick, which it is. It’s a simple act of Magick that most people can perform. Robbins obviously wanted money and followers and by doing Magick he got these. A lot of people are hung up on robes, incense, Magickal weapons, circles of protection, etc., which is very limiting. It took me years to break out of that mindset.

My Magick isn’t about wealth, so although wealth would be fantastic I would still be using that wealth to achieve the Magick I’m currently doing.


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Exactly, and that is where a lot of people also fail to graduate from dabbler from practitioner. One of two things often happen:

They lose belief because their manifestation did not occur in some grand fashion, saying “magick is bullshit, it’s just a coincidence”, not realizing that the majority of magick does manifest as coincidence, and that the act of living IS magick.

Or they become too highly invested in the trappings of magick, financially and psychologically, and when they fail at their work they walk away saying “magick is bullshit…”.


Unlike becoming a surgeon or mastering musical instruments, Magick is easy. Just do a bit of reading then fire away! Try to contact spiritual entities and obtain wealth and love - all in five minutes. If it doesn’t work then practitioners like me must be having themselves on, hand in the pants style, because as Woodsman81 stated, “magick is bullshit” - even if you wear a black T-shirt and trashy inverted pentagram.

I recommend those types try something like illicit hard drugs and/or frontier psychiatry. They’re a dime a dozen on the hoof. Life is littered with those types.


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