Magick selfish or unfair?

General Discussion
1

This was mentioned in the latest interview briefly. Is using magick to gain things like that sought after job unfair as it will indirectly mean someone else will not get the job?

Some people can argue that using magick is unfair and selfish, but in my opinion using magick as an advantage over their competitors is no more unfair than someone using their superior looks to gain employment over someone who is equally qualified and experienced but is unattractive. Is it fair that someone interviews better than another… but is not actually as hard working, but still gets the job?

I think there are hundreds of ways people use advantages over others in real life, magick is only one of them. So even though it may be an unfair advantage, its no more unfair than any other tactic people use. Its human nature to use an edge over others, and human nature to complain about someone else’s advantage when we lose.

On another note, is it unfair we use magick, or is it our victims fault for not evolving with us and being ignorant of their own ability to use magick?

What do you all think?

2

I think it’s not even important to even think about it. It is unfair to you to leave a perfectly good skill unused to further your evolution. As long as things are unfair in your world, you will be surrounded by unfair things and events in your life, and your world will be unfair. I have seen countless injustices that I could have prevented for myself, my friends, family, and anyone, rather I knew them or not, who could’ve benefited from my released potential. So be being this lesser version of myself, everything I see loses, and only when I do well everyone is doing well. I’ve seen homeless regulars on the street get jobs and consistent living arrangements when I was doing good work in my life, even though I didn’t see myself do anything directly for them. So nothing to me can possibly be more unfair in the world than holding back your own personal evolution, because you will always be powerless, or working below potential, to make the world more fair.

3

If you get a job, regardless of whether you used magic or not, you took the opportunity away from someone else. Hell, all of our actions have unforseen consequences, and some of these might mean the death of a person at some time in the future no matter how innocent they are. Yes, that’s true. Your helping an old lady cross the street might slow down a driver’s journey to place him at the right time in the right place to run down some three-year=old kid on his tricycle.

And what is so unfair about magic? Is it unfair some guy was born more charismatic than you More intelligent? Into a wealthy family? Is it unfair that I’ve dedicated my life, giving up hours of my day, to an art that , with much effort, allows me to manipulate the world according to my will? Is it unfair to expect some sort of return on my investment? Get out of here. I didn’t begin magic to blot out my existence in some Nirvana of union with the Godhead. If I wanted that I’d have gone with a right-hand-path religion.

On another note, is it unfair we use magick, or is it our victims fault for not evolving with us and being ignorant of their own ability to use magick?

These are questions of ethics which have no absolute answers. Try defining ‘fairness’ for instance, and then realise that any answer to your question will depend upon whatever definition - which isn’t true or false - has been chosen - usually conveniently enough to give the answers one already has in mind. Yet the answers can only be true or false in the context set by this definition. And where definitions diverge, what are we really valuing? The concept? The reality from which it is abstracted? The opinions of others? Or the mere word? It’s all just a language game of sorts. Fairness is just a concept.

4

I’d use magic to get a specific job precisely BECAUSE it’s ‘unfair’ to others. If it weren’t, there’d be no need to use it now, would there?

5

The way I look at it is that everyone for the most part has the opportunity to learn and utilize magick to make their life better. It’s not my fault that they would rather keep up with Kim Kardashian or whatever other celeb out there with the iq of a toaster. On the other hand many people use connections to get where and what they want, not all people have these connections so it evens out.

My job for example hires almost exclusively family and friends of current employees. I knew nobody when I was hired and have been passed up for several promotions I which I was filling the role at the time of the interviews. Instead people who are relatives of current employees RECIEVE these promotions with little qualifications and often before the mandatory number of years served a he business. So I use magick to make things easier for me, does that mean I’m taking advantage of people? No more than others who do it by different means.

Almost all magick is manipulating someone in some fashion. Use magick to get money and someone is manipulated to give you money when they may not have before, love magick…enough said, magick to give you an edge over competition and your manipulating someone’s perception of you, magick to help your business manipulates people to using your business when they may have went elsewhere.

I leave my morals out of magick if I need or want it I’ll work for it by any means available. If someone feels cheated by that they can put in the same amount of work and research I did and we’ll be on an even playing field. Until then fuck 'em.

6

I’ve always looked at it the same way I view video games. Even if you use a cheat code, that was still a capability that was programmed into the game before you ever got there, so in my eyes, its not technically cheating, its just taking a different path and method of going about things. Now, if only I can get a developers console for real life :wink:

7

iddqd idkfa

8

Every time you interact with someone and open your mouth, you are naturally persuading and manipulating that person. It is impossible not to do so. You can always work it out so both of you benefit, if that is your goal. The Lucifer Principle states that “evil” is a by-product of nature’s strategies for creation and that it is fundamental to our basic biological fabric. Don’t bring human concepts of selfishness, guilt, and unfairness into the equation. Just keep adding to your own power and allow the pieces to fall where they may.

I paraphrase Dr. Christopher S. Hyatt: Help people destroy themselves and have them thank you for it, all the while giving more power to yourself. If you don’t, they 'll do it to themselves somehow anyway. Everyone has an unconscious desire for self-destruction at some level.

Have you ever helped someone too much? They’ll eventually resent you for it. Most people want to be dominated and controlled on an unconscious level. I believe Black Magicians should be happy to oblige. It’s only natural in my opinion.

9

[quote=“Bitterroot, post:8, topic:1058”]Every time you interact with someone and open your mouth, you are naturally persuading and manipulating that person. It is impossible not to do so. You can always work it out so both of you benefit, if that is your goal. The Lucifer Principle states that “evil” is a by-product of nature’s strategies for creation and that it is fundamental to our basic biological fabric. Don’t bring human concepts of selfishness, guilt, and unfairness into the equation. Just keep adding to your own power and allow the pieces to fall where they may.

I paraphrase Dr. Christopher S. Hyatt: Help people destroy themselves and have them thank you for it, all the while giving more power to yourself. If you don’t, they 'll do it to themselves somehow anyway. Everyone has an unconscious desire for self-destruction at some level.

Have you ever helped someone too much? They’ll eventually resent you for it. Most people want to be dominated and controlled on an unconscious level. I believe Black Magicians should be happy to oblige. It’s only natural in my opinion.[/quote]

Your last quote rings especially true for me, as most of my relationships ended when people got “my help”. I have frequently had people refer to me as their mentor, adviser, the smartest man they knew, and even knowing them better then they knew themselves. However, when it came to helping them, which often involved having to critical about personality traits and their role in their own problems… BOOM!! All of the sudden, it’s “you don’t know me,” “you ain’t that smart,” “fuck you NIGGA!!” When the shit gets real, I’m a bad guy, so it’s like what to do? DO you try helping all the time with a sense of self-righteous altruism, or do you get what you need, and let the rest go as it will? So far, the latter has worked out better for everyone, so what’s really “evil”?

10

[quote=“Bitterroot, post:8, topic:1058”]Every time you interact with someone and open your mouth, you are naturally persuading and manipulating that person. It is impossible not to do so. You can always work it out so both of you benefit, if that is your goal. The Lucifer Principle states that “evil” is a by-product of nature’s strategies for creation and that it is fundamental to our basic biological fabric. Don’t bring human concepts of selfishness, guilt, and unfairness into the equation. Just keep adding to your own power and allow the pieces to fall where they may.

I paraphrase Dr. Christopher S. Hyatt: Help people destroy themselves and have them thank you for it, all the while giving more power to yourself. If you don’t, they 'll do it to themselves somehow anyway. Everyone has an unconscious desire for self-destruction at some level.

Have you ever helped someone too much? They’ll eventually resent you for it. Most people want to be dominated and controlled on an unconscious level. I believe Black Magicians should be happy to oblige. It’s only natural in my opinion.[/quote]
Wow…that was quite the eye opener. I find the phrase “Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted” to ring very true to real life

11

We do manipulate things all the time, in fact you cannot live without manipulation. When you breath, you change the chemistry of the atmosphere, not to mention things like farting or belching. Our everyday activities manipulate things in what could be considered a far worse way then utilizing primordial forces. Most of us take some sort of motorized, gas-powered vehicle to the places we need to go at least once in a day, and that shit possibly manipulates air, water, and earth in a number of poor ways. So how can magic be unfair or “bad” when we’re doing things that are most certainly counterproductive on a day-to-day basis?

This reminds me of something that happened a few years ago, when I was on a forum called mysticalwonders. It’s place with a lot of stuff on it on a wide variety of topics, and one that was popular for a while was psychic sexual seduction. I was reading posts, and saw a lot of people having trouble, primarily because they were rather desperate, or they did not know how to handle the power. So I made a post in an attempt to help folks troubleshoot, since I had experience with succeeding with it, and never got messed up for it.

The admin removed my stuff, and when I asked why, he said that he banned any more conversation on it, because manipulating people against their free-will was wrong… Really? This was wrong, yet he hosted some 20+ spellcaster services, which he gained affiliate commissions for and from which the #1 ordered spell was love and lust. He also gained massive commission for advertising the service of the Manifestation Master, who was an individual who people went to for manifesting requests, of which the #2 request was love and lust. Manifestation Master was a cool guy, and he even did a free service for any person once a month. I had no gripe with him at all, but I did have a gripe with the newsletter that was obligatory to being part of the forum, which spammed the exact same advertisement 3 times a day about this $1000 manifestation master service.

When I pointed out that I was just offering some free advice, something that would most certainly call for individuals to act responsibly and be thoughtful about their practice and power, while there were spells for lust, fame, love, money and social status, all of which require a HUGE amount of people manipulation, being sold to these very same insecure, irresponsible and desperate people en masse, I asked how this activity he was facilitating was more karmicly just than what I was bringing up, especially with the newsletter that offered no practical advice, only mass adverts. I didn’t say it was karmicly unjust to do it, but he proceeded to say that his spirit guides warned that I was a demon usurper who was bent on destroying him. He said that he would send the power of 1000 angels after me, and that he would wage a battle of war against my unholiness.

I’m a pretty good liar, but I wish I could make this one up. My brother HGA read the thing with me, and nearly died laughing. I told the guy none of that was necessary, and that he could ban me off the forum, which I was glad to do after that. All this was to say, when you go down that road of fair and shit like that, you almost certainly wind up getting caught in a trap. Even those people who retreat in to the woods can be seen as selfish, because instead of offering their power to the world, they leave the world completely untouched by the power, and hoard all that spiritual knowledge for themselves. That’s equally as unfair as someone who uses it to gain more money for themselves, perhaps even more so because the person using that money is more than likely not using it only for themselves, but also family and friends more than likely.

If someone used a love spell on me, and it wound up giving me a feeling of love and sensual comfort, would I give a damn? Hell no, even if she was ugly, if I’m having a good time because of the spell, who gives a damn? You manipulate your boss to make a decision to pay you more, which in turn makes him more money because you did better work than the guy who was there before. Who is getting mad at that except the guy who sucked at his job? SO it doesn’t make sense to even worry about that trap, just make sure that what you ask for is something you’re going to utilize to it’s fullest extent, and that is all the fairness you need really.

12

Well my policy is it might not be fair but I don’t care. If the universe doesn’t mind, neither should you.

Anyway, metatron, did that guy ever actually send any angels after you? He sounds like he was probably a hack from the sound of it though so maybe he didn’t have access to anything like that.

But yeah I consider myself to be a grey magician rather then black but I’ll use it to manipulate all sorts of people, granted though most of the time when I do that its for a beneficial reason.

13

I highly doubt he did, and if he did, it helped me out. I know that his forum is fairly inactive, a lot of people left there, and since then my diabetes has had hallmarked improvement. I told him not to do it (if he could, which I doubted) primarily because he was taking disrespect when I wasn’t even disrespectful, and might wind up fuckin’ himself up before ever doing anything to me. Either way, the email was HILARIOUS!!