As time is a basic characteristic of this realm, and my concerns are in this realm, I always stipulate specific time frames in my evocations.
I want something to happen within a certain period of time.
If it doesn’t, I consider the operation unsuccessful.
Even if the matter seems to resolve itself much later, I discount it – I consider it not to be of use to me outside the time frame I specified.
I don’t want a Spirit modifying my objectives for me.
What are the opinions of some more experienced Sorcerers on this subject?
thanks in advance
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Personally, I’ve noticed a continuing pattern in my work, and that is things always take a little longer than expected. If I do a ritual with the intention and expectation of results manifesting tomorrow, they’ll usually happen at the end of the week. There have been a few exceptions, mainly with healing, where the results were instantaneous. I’m not entirely sure why though. I have a feeling its because reality itself has to be restructured in a way that conforms to your desires, and since everyone contributes to making this reality, the more “public” your manifestation is, the more effort it takes to bring it to fruition. If you’re healing yourself, that’s a personal reality, and hardly anyone but you would see it or feel it, but say you’re trying to get 10,000 dollars…that involves a reality of people at the bank, bosses, coworkers, etc who ALL have to conform to that new reality youre manifesting. Just a theory though
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Pacts are based on time frames. Demons understand and are able to work within time. What then is the essential difficulty in obtaining a result within a time frame specified? How should a lack of result within that time frame be interpreted?
If the result occurs outside of the time frame — ether before or after – should this be considered a success or a failure?
eg.
getting results for plan A when you’ve already abandoned plan A and moved on to plan B
etc
I consider these results failures and discount them, because I have not exercised control over the results.
Yes the random aspect of magic is always there, but too much random and it is meaningless.
Thanks for any comments from sorcerers who have looked at this problem
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[quote=“Student of Goetia, post:3, topic:974”]Pacts are based on time frames. Demons understand and are able to work within time. What then is the essential difficulty in obtaining a result within a time frame specified? How should a lack of result within that time frame be interpreted?
If the result occurs outside of the time frame — ether before or after – should this be considered a success or a failure?
eg.
getting results for plan A when you’ve already abandoned plan A and moved on to plan B
etc
I consider these results failures and discount them, because I have not exercised control over the results.
Yes the random aspect of magic is always there, but too much random and it is meaningless.
Thanks for any comments from sorcerers who have looked at this problem[/quote]
So if you put a deadline on results for Monday and didn’t recieve them till Thursday you would consider that a failure?
I understand the point of looking at your results in an objective and scientific manner not only to judge success but to also prevent some fantasy that because I did a spell to get money and found a $5 bill on the ground a month later I got results. Not all manifestation can or will occur when we wish we are setting things in motion and are unable to see the big picture and how things had to unfold for the results to manifest.
I
[quote=“Student of Goetia, post:5, topic:974”]Changing the course of events means rearranging the sorcerer’s life without his approval
Who is in control?[/quote]
I see that a bit differently. If I set said course of events into motion then I have given permission for results to manifest themselves.
For example if I find out I need $2k by Saturday and the money manifests itself the following Monday morning I would consider the working successful, I put into motion for the money to manifest itself and it did. The hiccup in the timeline was likely error on my part due to not focusing enough or not putting enough energy into the working to manifest in the desired time frame.
I tend to do some divination before performing ritual to see how things will play out with and without a ritual. If it looks to be more advantageous I will perform a ritual along with mundane effort to see it is brought to fruition.
My understanding of divination is to divine not how it will work out, as if it will not work out as I intend, but to divine exactly what is necessary to make it work as I intend
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I take it that it’s not a good idea to give a Demonic King a time frame? Bit pushy isn’t it?
During my training with Azazel I have been taught to push in ritual for the immediate accomplishment of the goal, always intending to have the magick manifest NOW. Near the end of any ritual I evict all attachment, emotion, desire, ect. for the working- including memory of the ritual. If any thought or attention to the ritual pops up afterwords as I go about my day, I just allow the thought to drift away, and I pay it no heed.
Trust the spirits who are experts in their fields to find the best possible outcome to bring to pass the accomplishment of the goal.
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It is common for a result desired within a time frame to manifest that it will manifest later. This can be because of scarce energy put into the ritual, the spirits used for it, environmental circumstances, etc. I’ve experienced this manyfold. And I’ll tell you what to do for adaptation.
You will experience this through your time as a magician. You now have two options. Either learn to become a stronger mage and manifest whenever you desire(which will take time), so further problems similar won’t occur, or use magick, your mind and plan to place yourself in a position where you don’t need these things within a time frame, and/or in a position where these things won’t affect you as much.
That’s for future events. As far as now, if you need results by tomorrow, I suggest plan ahead. Prepare for the worst, but work for the best. Have a plan ready if your ritual doesn’t work.