Some people claim to appear/receive disturbing images while projecting and are said to be in the lowee astral.
So thats the kliffot? Or another different stuff?
I would say just as the Sephiroth tap a fundamental Force (which is characterized as ābalancedā steady vs the contrary unbalanced/disruptive-unstable-surging)- and thus are like more than a certain quality, but raised to the level of a Dynamic; in that sense that Planetary forces (often combined, but a different system, vs mushing the two) are like tapping not just a Quality but the like the Fountainhead-source of what is categorized as Arche-type.
In other words, just as āprojecting contextā near physical, or not near physical, where one senses say Malkus-type energiesā¦ that isnāt the same as the Source (the energy supporting those Malkus-type energies)ā¦ which the sephirot is. And along with this, one may sense/interact with the energies associated with the Quality of Nahemoth (Freed-Malkus)ā¦ and yet that isnāt the source ofā¦ (find the person working the strings of the puppet, behind the curtain)
-Locating the Actor is still different from āgoing thereā (which is attuning your-self/Energies/Con to that freq, and becoming like that- thus you your-self radiating that qual)ā¦ which could be how the sephirot or Kilffot could be referenced [you only reference the kiliffot, but I start with sephirotic also, just to include the two]
-in the same way Evoking, or just calling-forth the Energetic power of, say Jupiterian Force (via whatever āmaskā) is different than categorizing an energetic flow in the ālocalā as Jupiterianā¦ which both differ from travelling to the āframe of referenceā of Jupiter-itselfā¦ (and then returning, with that impact).
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some may associate the two- (qliphotic and ālower astralā- as you write)ā¦ espec if they are going off an interpretive systemā¦ vs a more association to the energetic flow-sources. [I think the ādirty=lowerā and āpurer=higher more developedā is not a good way to go, as it is a distorting memetic-system, but much language used by some writings does apply to this. -but to contrast, the Demonic as supposed to be ālowerā? or just different, or in the non-dual levels (beyond the causal)- the poles are linked (beyond yang from yinā¦ the taiji is still), which is where the āinfernal hierarchyā is said to have its Empire (per Bk of Azazel)ā¦ (which is all right-here vs distant).
Some writings seem to like the Idea of Farther away is betterā¦ thus near the body things are not so goodā¦ and thus ānastiesāā¦ (but isntā the phys Enviro āhomeā? -Iād say)ā¦ and then Raise upā¦ but high up in the pure-angelic may not be as āhighā as the qlipphotic: the Tree of Life spheres could be seen as Object-Class structures in Computer-Language terms (or likely a better metaphor than that).
a metaphor comes to mind- say you have a bedroom, your āprivate spaceā you go t be alone, with family etc. and then one day you realize there is a window looking right into your āroomā and a small alley with another window a few ft away- with a person there looking at youā¦ and you realize that window has always been there- how often have they been looking?
why did you not see it before? (eek- stress reaction) -and yet are you Skrying someone far-distant? are they "in your Space"? have you blended two different viewpts- confusing? - internal feeling of <give me space as I recalibrate this> like when you get startled and "I need a sec" -along with "suppressed"/unrecogd.. feelings that suddenly click when you become aware- and before the AHA, there is the ugh- what is that? -that all seems to mix to create would could be called "lower"? different context systems..
just to round out what you reference- what might be your encounter with such, what seems to make sense to you?
(just Iād watch the implications of any interpretation-system, as the framework clicks into later āwordingā -and that Meaning-expectation, affects your experience, even the first-contact).
Very interesting taokua, ill reread at home, at workplace atm
sorry for the delay, I was assimilating this.
So you tell me, it depends on the system you choose to categorize it, and your atunement to energies (positive side or negative side of in this case, the Moon Sphere (astral plane))
it depends on the system you choose to categorize it >> Well, to determine what is being referred to, as different people could āuse the same termsā to indicate different thingsā¦
as āMoon sphereā isnāt an actual Place that one can point to in order to be sure we are both referring to the same, and then go from there (- until one has strong ability/develā¦ then one could, but by thenā¦ speakin/comm on a different llvl)ā¦ and Iād say āmoon sphereā (as planetary), vs the Sephiroth -ea of which could be said to be related to āastralā but not solely
(assuming you are using the Theosophic concept of more rareified Planes- going up/downā¦ which isnāt a QBListic concept, nor really a Vedic- but a development)ā¦ if you mean Astral lower- being ācloserāā¦ vs a ācatch-allā phrase (many use the term Astral, ~from Fr Starry, to indicate the realm else-wise from ālocalā when using Energetic-Senses, other than the local-area just seen via those sensesā¦ if all of that is included, vs saying just a portion of)ā¦
thus what above, its a classification process, of using words as terms. but I donāt agree its just callit however (as another meaning/interp from your post could be saying, if you āchoose to categorize it one wayā that changes what is there, and āchoosing to cat it another wayā changes it all againā¦
-again, if you mean Choose with the Conscious-Personality Mind? -Iād say that has little affect, but if you mean the āMindā (of which we are characters in a story- that storyteller-Mind)ā¦ that part choosingā¦
Actually Iāve come to SEE more and more recently, that going into a Magickal Action (to influence, or to just receive and perceive) depends upon Choosing to Do itā¦ but not Choose with the Everyday-Personalityā¦ as that mind is just Programmes (what we think of as Choice is just following stim-response)ā¦ there needs to be a moment of FreeMind and that other mind Choosing from Clarity
-but just as a character in a story can think of what it is like to not only be in another Story, but to be āconceiving storiesāā¦ but that is just part of the Story (if youāll forgive the slightly convoluted ex)ā¦ the nature of the storyteller is different (just as our Personality thoughts can think of what it might-be-like)ā¦ but the key, the character is being expressed by the Storytellerās Mindā¦ and thus the Mind of the Storyteller is actually in/thru/around that persona (always was)ā¦ thus advaita- so tricky relating to above.
anyway- to return to your post- Iād say if I mean something different by terms than you might interpretā¦ youād need to know my āmeaningsā to understand what Iām meaningā¦ that kind of thing. But that is just an interpretation of Naming itā¦ -Is that what youāre implying in above Q?
yet (Naming the Named does have a Magick of its own)
and there are different systems- some seem to imply a small area (like a town or ācircleā on a flat-planeā¦ (thus A) rising āhigherā shifts to another plane? -vs flying up near airplanes, or in orbitā¦ or even B) an entire Space on a diff Freqā¦ thus this would be like Changing the Channel on TVā¦ same screen different eventsā¦ āsame placeā? -but this could make it more linear and clear than it is ( the Tree is both Flat-Horizontalā¦ ea a different Quality- but all the wholeā¦ as well as is the Tree Vertical-layers- each Step up is larger than the layers ābelowā (like a reversed Iceburg). ) Anyway- if you reference the older Trads, that used Planetary/OuterSpace = further away from our Planetā¦ and tying that to these āCentresā it reveals things, but not quite what might be first interpreted
[I hope I didnāt fully scramble, let alone miss what you were inquiring- was I on the track of what you were writing? -writing/meaning a meaning, while begining with the question of writing and meaning (words) seems to get circularly-definition-ish]
Tao thanks for your reply its so deep I had to think quite a lot before replying sorry for my delay.
Yes, i catch the point. When I refer when asking if lower astral is kliffot, is if we project our consciousnes into the Tree of Dead when accessing what is called the lower astral (and the higher astral would be the sephirot)
The ātuningā concept and the channels is very clear, so those who atune their consciousness in the lowest frequencies (prone to feelings as depression or lust) are entering the kliffa? Even without knowing?
I just want to map the termed lower astral into the 2 Trees. Hope to be clear
The astral is represented in both trees in the lower spheres of each tree. Just as the higher realms are represented in both trees. Just because the Qlippoth has demonic rulers doesnāt mean it is lower in energy, vibration and power than the Dayside tree. If anything it acts as a stronger catalyst for evolution and change that itās Dayside counterpart.
Cosmic Duality ā¦ so simple yet so exquisitely complex. I know there is great power on either way. these things are why im so enwrapped with The primal current. Hecate made it all according to that tradition and it allows me to do anything with anything but I need to alter my style just a little, not used to the whole worship thing, kinda sickens me honestly ( lucky for me im crazy enough to have fallen in actual love with her)ā¦ going to fully devote soon but I have a few things to work out first. like the ability to remember my soul travel and projections. I sufferd a T.B.I. in Afghanistan. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I seem to be stuck in T/G sink for ridiculous amounts of time too supper hard to ground myself argggg
also donāt forget the etheric plane.the astral plane has alive colours that donāt exist on earthā¦the etheric entities are like parots.they mimic their prototypes and they are not inteligent.they come to astral projecters to disturb them and mess around with the silver cordā¦maybe the lower astral is the etheric plane??
i found some interesting info from the site of pazuzuā¦
[url=http://www.spellsandmagic.com/EthericPlaneRetreats.html]TWC-č ęčØå°éåŗ éč²©ćµć¤ć
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[quote=ādron, post:9, topic:1801ā]also donāt forget the etheric plane.the astral plane has alive colours that donāt exist on earthā¦the etheric entities are like parots.they mimic their prototypes and they are not inteligent.they come to astral projecters to disturb them and mess around with the silver cordā¦maybe the lower astral is the etheric plane??
i found some interesting info from the site of pazuzuā¦
[url=http://www.spellsandmagic.com/EthericPlaneRetreats.html]TWC-č ęčØå°éåŗ éč²©ćµć¤ć
Iād talk that info with a grain of salt, itās based on the teachings of Elizabeth Prophet. Look her up and youāll see where this comes from.
[quote=āandreeje, post:10, topic:1801ā][quote=ādron, post:9, topic:1801ā]also donāt forget the etheric plane.the astral plane has alive colours that donāt exist on earthā¦the etheric entities are like parots.they mimic their prototypes and they are not inteligent.they come to astral projecters to disturb them and mess around with the silver cordā¦maybe the lower astral is the etheric plane??
i found some interesting info from the site of pazuzuā¦
[url=http://www.spellsandmagic.com/EthericPlaneRetreats.html]TWC-č ęčØå°éåŗ éč²©ćµć¤ć
Iād talk that info with a grain of salt, itās based on the teachings of Elizabeth Prophet. Look her up and youāll see where this comes from.[/quote]
to tell the truth i didnāt bother to search for herā¦maybe itās crap.but i heard many times about astral temples located on earthās dimensions