Learning Tantra for Practical Use


#1

A post in the General Discussion section entitled “Tantric Sex” caused me to go on a spree of researching into the Hindu Tantric works. Like most normla folks, when I thought Tantra, I thought sex, even though I wasn’t really focused on using it to improve the direct physical act, but more so the implementation of Tantric sex as a means of energy circulation and of spiritual reconfiguration. From my own personal experience, I could vouch for the power of sexual energy raising, the likes of which created a very powerful helper entity even with my less-than-perfect ritual for creating it. I also became attracted to it because of my affinity to working with the spiritual world (i.e. powers, entities) as feminine aspects, which relates more to me as a male and gives me somewhat of a boost in being able to delve deeply into works with such.

Yet, in the aforementioned post I was able to see that my view of Tantra was very narrow. To be honest, I knew this, as I have several books that I have skimmed through that relayed such. In fact, when talking of Tantra, the use of physical sex, or any sort of carnal sex act, is often ignored, if not outwardly admonished by those who consider themselves “true” Tantric practitioners.

This unmentioned practice revolved around deity worship (chiefly Hindu goddess forms) with focused meditation through the use of specific Mantras and even Yantra symbols. Since my experience with entity activity is mostly from a Western perspective, I was not necessarily prepared for how hard of a devotional aspect this Tantra was, and seemed like what is modernly called 'Tantra" was sorely lacking.

This form of Tantra, from what I could gather, had a massive amount of magical potential to it. I was already in the habit of using Mantra for sigil forming, and it has worked wonders in generating power and transformation. I was also attracted to the Yantra as a form of geometric sigil, as they opened gateways that could not only be explored as realms of reality with their own hidden knowledge, but also as gateways for Goddess power to come through into the world.

This Tantra, in its bare form, appears as a ground for a very interesting, powerful, and active magic base. However, as with most ancient spiritual forms, the bevy of traditions in relation to the matter are only as numerous as the overwhelming constrictions such traditions uphold. Such as the Solomonic tradition of the West, the Hindu Tantric tradition, at least in relation to deity and entity work, is almost equally, if not more flashy than its Western counterparts.

Some of these restrictions seem easy to throw out. For example, Yantric symbols are purported as needing to be made of specific metals and activated by qualified “tantrikas”. However, as such claims are also made about talismans as worked in Western magic, and seeing as that there are many methods of charging magical symbols, this is easy to adapt. E.A.'s sigil opening, and in particular his work in “Questing After Visions” is almost completely synonymous with the core of this Yantra ideal, and many people engage in meditations with hand-drawn Yantras on paper.

However, other ritualistic applications are a little bit harder to try to adapt, and this is where I am a bit confused. For example, I have seen supposed sadhanas in which and individual is supposed to chant a multi-syllabic mantra 10,000 times in 1 day. Now I’m no math wiz, and I am not a mantra master, but I do know that mantras are supposed to be vibrated on multiple levels. I also know that there are 1440 minutes in a 24-hour day.

If we are to take, let’s say, a 12-syllable mantra, and each syllable takes 1 sec to vibrate (and for me that is extremely fast, almost too fast for vibration), then 1 round of chanting takes 12 secs. Why is this important? Simply put, with that time component in place, one could only chant this mantra 7,200 times a day, doing nothing else but chanting mantra. No eating, drinking, bathing, sleeping, pissing or shitting. Just straight chanting. So not only is this requirement somewhat long-necked to begin with, it’s impossible. Now I don’t want to advertise this as the norm, but it also isn’t rare either.

I would say that all is not lost, and in fact there are things that can be done if one thinks clearly (and abstractly) enough. Even while I typed this, my frustration over the matter cleared when I considered things like radionics and sigil formation to create atmospheres that parallel to the conditions set forth in these devotionals. Even though I forget it, and should probably stop reading much of anything else other than Koetting (not dick-riding, but it’s the most direct and universal work I have seen and worked with period) and some Uncle Chuck, my experience has at least shown me that creativity in situations like this usually adds massive amounts of power rather than causing any sort of perceived penalty.

I am no expert, in fact I barely even got my foot in the door with this stuff. I respect this community as a whole, and there seems to be a lot of experience generated from a number of different disciplines floating around here. Perhaps someone with more insight and experience in this realm would be willing to offer their two cents, and quite frankly nothing you could say in terms of the validity of my analysis would be considered insulting. Hell, I ain’t got shit worth of experience in this realm of things, so I’m willing to hear what folks got to say, especially since I might choose to forego any unlike criticism and do my own thing anyway. Either way, I think it’s a topic worth exercising the spiritual brain over.


#2

Generally in Eastern philosophy/religion/spirituality when the number 10,000 is used the implication is always infinity or beyond counting as in “the 10,000 petal lotus” as a name for the crown chakra, linking to the infinite qualities obtained in activation of the chakra (and also the visionary experiences often associated with it) or the constant reference to the “10,000 things” in the Dao De Jing in this case referring to all of the infinite-ness of reality in its divided state.

With this in mind we can see that when you are asked to chant the Mantra 10,000 times this is not to be taken literally but instead it is be chanted beyond counting.

Although it isn’t something I have experienced myself, it is often stated that those who fully and regularly apply themselves to Bija Mantra will reach a point where the Mantra has become so ingrained in their subconscious mind that they will “chant” it continuously in their head, it becomes a background sound behind all their thoughts at all moments through out the day unless they willfully stop it.

Considering that divine names and Mantras such as Aum are meant to be such profound symbolic concepts rendered in sound that if one was to as above constantly have their subconscious mind focused on the mantra then one couldn’t help but manifest a reality where they are the embodiment of Aum (or which ever Bija is chosen).

When you are asked to perform a Matra “10,000” times in a single day, its not about keeping count, its about taking it to that level where you are repeating it infinity, there by actualising it in the present and “completing the goal” of your Tantra.

It is for this reason that many Masters stress the importance of a Mantra being “given” to you. Whilst any sound can be used to focus the mind, if you choose something negative or at least unproductive and then internalise it to an advanced level you are going to end up manifesting it.


#3

[quote=“Soundwave, post:2, topic:787”]Generally in Eastern philosophy/religion/spirituality when the number 10,000 is used the implication is always infinity or beyond counting as in “the 10,000 petal lotus” as a name for the crown chakra, linking to the infinite qualities obtained in activation of the chakra (and also the visionary experiences often associated with it) or the constant reference to the “10,000 things” in the Dao De Jing in this case referring to all of the infinite-ness of reality in its divided state.

With this in mind we can see that when you are asked to chant the Mantra 10,000 times this is not to be taken literally but instead it is be chanted beyond counting.

Although it isn’t something I have experienced myself, it is often stated that those who fully and regularly apply themselves to Bija Mantra will reach a point where the Mantra has become so ingrained in their subconscious mind that they will “chant” it continuously in their head, it becomes a background sound behind all their thoughts at all moments through out the day unless they willfully stop it.

Considering that divine names and Mantras such as Aum are meant to be such profound symbolic concepts rendered in sound that if one was to as above constantly have their subconscious mind focused on the mantra then one couldn’t help but manifest a reality where they are the embodiment of Aum (or which ever Bija is chosen).

When you are asked to perform a Matra “10,000” times in a single day, its not about keeping count, its about taking it to that level where you are repeating it infinity, there by actualising it in the present and “completing the goal” of your Tantra.

It is for this reason that many Masters stress the importance of a Mantra being “given” to you. Whilst any sound can be used to focus the mind, if you choose something negative or at least unproductive and then internalise it to an advanced level you are going to end up manifesting it.[/quote]

Thank you very much this makes a lot more sense. I was just confused because, well, in my experience with a lot of study in traditions, folks cling to them as dogma law. But that explanation was very enlightening for me to say the very least


#4

Its important to remember that all ritual and dogma had a practical basis at some point, they weren’t just made up for no reason. I have found it useful to reread texts as I gain a deeper understanding and more experience, things that didn’t seem important before suddenly become more useful when you gain that deeper understanding.

Having said that there are definitely elements that have become corrupted by time and transmission into becoming useless so it can be tricky.


#5

I can agree to some extent, in a sense that these rituals and dogma are done for the purpose of capturing a certain essence. However, while the essence is perhaps the intent, the unchanged part of this paradigm, things like tradition can be, and in my experience should be changed and evolved as time moves along.

What you said about rereading , for instance. This often is the opposite for me at least hahaha, but this is usually because I get a very good idea of the theory first time around. But at least in the sense of these practices, it is funny to see how many variations already exist. Like cremation practice, for instance… no one really knows what the fuck it even refers to. Some find it as a literal translation, others interact in an allegorical fashion. If taken completely literally, some would be impossible not only if you didn’t live in India, but if you didn’t live in a particular part of India. And in modern times, some things would be the invitation of disease, like bathing in the Ganges River (man, if you ever been to India, the Ganges is completely messed up).

This is partly why I have confidence in working with an adapted ritual. Vibrating mantras. I can do that. Creating artistic God yantras. I can do that. Meditating upon the symbols and powers, opening myself up to their mysteries. I can, and most certainly will do all of that.

Trusting someone to charge a golden yantra for me, whom I don’t know and in an age of spiritual charlatans… I could do that, but it would serve me right if I got completely scammed (It would be even worse considering that Hinduism is sadly the basis for a lot of empty spiritual work). Meditating under a Mumblaka tree… I don’t even know what the hell that is, but since it is winter, and I live in Chicago… not soundin’ like a hot move.

However, it’s not impossible, and fortune favors the bold. For me, a devotional of any sort would have to involve creating quite a bit of etheric realignment, that is to say, creating the etheric aura that some of the elements of these practices are supposed to produce. I could sigilize the Mumblaka tree, and open that sigil’s power to create that effect, if it is indeed integral. Working with radionics can do the same, taking a picture of that type of tree and implanting it into my ritual space. I make all my own incense, so that is more than taken care of. There are a lot of elements I can retain, and that’s why I find it a little silly I got so frustrated initially. However, I thought it was important to bounce some of these things off more experienced minds.


#6

A complete system will only ever work in its completeness for the people it was designed for, usually a specific cultural ethnic group in a specific time period. Bathing in the Ganges and meditation under Mumblaka trees will only have there true weight as a spiritual practice if you have a life time of understanding that they are holy. It is definitely possible through deep immersion into a system to gain that same level of connection but in the case of the Ganges, it is unlikely you will ever be able to supercede your knowledge of its toxicity with knowledge that is is holy to make it work as an effective spiritual practice (and if you have the self control that allows you to engage a systems in this way you are probably beyond needing the ritual anyway)

The other thing here is a modern occult scholar and practitioner (if they are serious) is going to read in the first year of study more literature than any ancient master would have read in their entire life and will therefore have incredible theoretical and practical guidelines at their finger tips, the sort of knowledge that would have taken an initiate years to obtain previously.

Consider that if your were an initiate of an ancient mystery cult you would have had a single book to work from, maybe a few more if you were lucky and you had to put you entire faith in your master/guru to guide you. People haven’t changed that much in the last thousands of years so an ancient initiate still had the same amount of egoistic fear and doubt to overcome than we do today. Therefore it take years and years of initiation to obliterate that ego and then build the connection and trust to really make a system work. We on the other hand can, in a few hours of solid research, pull up dozens of resources to confirm (and build that trust) which ever practice or theory we want and then with a few months of serious application achieve the same level of mastery (therefore obtaining the connection). So for the blessing of ritual objects, that would be something to do yourself.

If I was working the system as you describe it I wouldn’t worry about meditating under any specific tree nor would I sigilise it or something else to that effect. But I certainly would create some specific location of holyness to meditate. And then you are goign to write your praxis down and in a hundred years it will be collated with other tantric texts, some dude is going to reading it and say on some space-internet forum
"Oh my god, I am so confused about whether to follow the Tantric classics or this variation by Metatron777 or perhaps this other variation"
The variations exist because people have had to make changes to the systems depending on when and where they were performing their practice. Some elements remain the same but the truth of it is there becomes a point for every high level spiritual practitioner where you change the system, because you understand how all the elements in the system work, you understand the circumstances of your own existence and you know how to make the 2 meet in a viable praxis.

Until you reach that level of mastery you have to follow the scripts because they detail what it took for some previous master to get his results and if it worked for him it might just work for you.


#7

[quote=“Soundwave, post:6, topic:787”]A complete system will only ever work in its completeness for the people it was designed for, usually a specific cultural ethnic group in a specific time period. Bathing in the Ganges and meditation under Mumblaka trees will only have there true weight as a spiritual practice if you have a life time of understanding that they are holy. It is definitely possible through deep immersion into a system to gain that same level of connection but in the case of the Ganges, it is unlikely you will ever be able to supercede your knowledge of its toxicity with knowledge that is is holy to make it work as an effective spiritual practice (and if you have the self control that allows you to engage a systems in this way you are probably beyond needing the ritual anyway)

The other thing here is a modern occult scholar and practitioner (if they are serious) is going to read in the first year of study more literature than any ancient master would have read in their entire life and will therefore have incredible theoretical and practical guidelines at their finger tips, the sort of knowledge that would have taken an initiate years to obtain previously.

Consider that if your were an initiate of an ancient mystery cult you would have had a single book to work from, maybe a few more if you were lucky and you had to put you entire faith in your master/guru to guide you. People haven’t changed that much in the last thousands of years so an ancient initiate still had the same amount of egoistic fear and doubt to overcome than we do today. Therefore it take years and years of initiation to obliterate that ego and then build the connection and trust to really make a system work. We on the other hand can, in a few hours of solid research, pull up dozens of resources to confirm (and build that trust) which ever practice or theory we want and then with a few months of serious application achieve the same level of mastery (therefore obtaining the connection). So for the blessing of ritual objects, that would be something to do yourself.

If I was working the system as you describe it I wouldn’t worry about meditating under any specific tree nor would I sigilise it or something else to that effect. But I certainly would create some specific location of holyness to meditate. And then you are goign to write your praxis down and in a hundred years it will be collated with other tantric texts, some dude is going to reading it and say on some space-internet forum
"Oh my god, I am so confused about whether to follow the Tantric classics or this variation by Metatron777 or perhaps this other variation"
The variations exist because people have had to make changes to the systems depending on when and where they were performing their practice. Some elements remain the same but the truth of it is there becomes a point for every high level spiritual practitioner where you change the system, because you understand how all the elements in the system work, you understand the circumstances of your own existence and you know how to make the 2 meet in a viable praxis.

Until you reach that level of mastery you have to follow the scripts because they detail what it took for some previous master to get his results and if it worked for him it might just work for you.[/quote]

Your input is very much obliged, and is why I respect this community. Thanks for this input it is extremely valuable, yet terribly straightforward and simple.


#8

I am glad its helpful and I do hope it helps you with attainment. Please forgive me if I come out as too blunt, words are one of the biggest limitations in spiritual instruction and I hate to confuse things more by sugar coating


#9

Haha the only thing you should even think about asking forgiveness for is thinking that you need to ask for forgiveness. This feedback was EXACTLY what I was looking to hear, primarily because it was what I was thinking in the first place. I should perhaps be apologizing at very least to my own mind for needing to confirm its genius, the likes of which has come in handy despite my best efforts to forget about. That’s not in an arrogant sense, because genius exists with all of us, and we just don’t know how to put it to use, or fail to give it the confidence it needs to thrive. You just helped me bounce around and realize a few things I was overlooking, and it was quite a bit more polite than it could’ve been. Thanks a million!


#10

The elements that I can see are pretty much the same as many other magic practices, and what I was suffering from was due to getting caught in complexities that I have become far too familiar with. I’m somewhat of a all-or-nothing person, in a sense that I try to go all out or I will absolutely not do it at all.

Like said before, many of the ancient traditions we have now were made in isolation from one another, and across highly variable timelines. It really wasn’t until the 20th century that people even starting realizing correlations between underlying principles of spiritual systems, and for someone who is even as headstrong, stubborn, know-it-all as myself, it’s hard to think that I can make adaptations and correlations that haven’t been exposed to a general audience yet (not saying no one else can see the correlations and similarities, just that these similarities are not generally accepted or realized).

Simply put though, the Tantric styles of magick are really based on the same principles as we can see outlined by E.A. Yantras, although not completely similar to sigils in their ideology of formation, still operate in the same fashion as a direct-sync technology to realms and powers designated to them. The consistent chanting of mantras and concentration on the Yantra in question acts as an immersion mechanism which also garners the mind into a GammaTheta sync. The sadhak was also trained in various kundalini kriyas and tantras (meditations based on energy circulation) which they learned prior to this for the purpose of having free energy flow and control.

It doesn’t sound to hard to adapt after all now, especially given that there is a wealth of knowledge to draw from. However, like anything else, the type of summoning that can be done involves having some preliminary training.


#11

Thats pretty much it, you have some skill so you can play with things a bit. If you hit a wall though don’t be to egoistic to go back and play tings little closer to the letter.

I don’t think I would use Yantras at all like sigils though, to me they are symbolic representations of concepts to powerful for words. Although they make excellent points of focus for meditation and will certainly lead you deeper into meditation, they then will transmit knowledge and understanding straight into your mind. I don’t really understand how it works but its quiet amazing. Although not a Yantra, the Taiji (usually called the yin and yang, although this is certainly folly) is extremely good for this.


#12

Not all yantras are as heavily charged as the yantras that are commonly known like Sri Yantra. Sri Yantra is of a class of higher-order Yantras, ones that are like access points and gateways to nearly otherworldly dimensions. Although you can passively work with them and have them jerk information in your mind, after some time these Yantras become completely different worlds in themselves. Yantras of this order are usually planetary, deity-designated, or representative of some other primordial force and creational power stream.

However, I found the concept of the Yantra overall to be correlative to this because there are Yantras for far more worldly and specific things. This was really the breadth of my frustration, although I have long since found my way out of that. There are Yantras that are devastatingly similar in function and use to planetary squares, along with Yantras for specific entities of a lower order like yakshinis, apsaras, and others. Another reason why I identified them with sigils was because of their method of potency, primarily that in order for a Yantra to work for the practitioner, it must be energetically activated.

Once activated, the practitioner performs puja to get in sync with the powers representative with a Yantra. A singular Yantra may have hundreds of different purposes, none the least being talismanic for one. Sri Yantra, despite being and effective meditating tool, has so many different applications, you can probably formulate an entire magic system with it alone. Just changing it’s color can have profound effects. Yantras are also used as evocational tools wherein the end of a puja is marked by a visit from a deity, or other entity force (like the yaksha/yakshini, or apsaras).

Again, I think with my experience I am going with what I can do. I have preliminary work to do before this so that’s something that factors in to the work to be done. However, in terms of breaking the rules… man, magic right now in the West is a broken rule template. The Goetics themselves are comprised at least in part with Gods that were related to in a completely different manner prior to the dominance of Judeo-Christian paradigms, and really powerful Gods at that. The sigil of Amon has not been the same since the days of Egypt when that designation was given to the god Amon-Ra.

I’m just going to have to find my own way, and I feel fine doing that because the spiritual entities I have with me right now (Bathin and a created one) are realized in ways that completely break the rules. But I’ve asked her (yea, Bathin is female for me) to help me out with keeping my chakras open and facilitating mental conditions savvy to lucid dreams. I got into Tantra, and now she’s been goin wild with my chakra in a very lascivious manner. But does she accomplish the task I asked? Yea, in short time, too. Is all this sexual chakra stimulation working? Hell yea, I even found myself meditating on the Sri Yantra, and the damn thing nearly popped out of my computer. Pulsing, Pulsing… Bam! Right off the damn screen, broker my comp chair it was too unexpected hahaha.

Thanks for chiming in I think I got all I need!