Is Vampirism = Narcissism + occult techniques?

Greetings fellow Vampires.

Since Ive been diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder I can´t help but draw many parallels between Narcissism and Vampirism.
I want to make it clear that every concept mentioned in the title (Narcissism, Vampirism and Occultism) has helped me to not only come to a better understanding of myself but has also given me tools to change where necessary and overall helped me to progress towards a better version of myself. My goal, therefore, is not to bash any of these concepts but rather start a discourse about the conjunction of said terms.

With that out of the way let me present the similarities Ive found so far:

Emergence of Vampirism/Narcissism
Vampirism: While the jury seems to be still out on whether Vampires are born or made, most sources seem to agree that if one isn´t a born Vampire[1] one will develop the trait around puberty to late adolescence[2].
Narcissism: The personality disorder seems to form due to a combination of genetic and environmental influences (in childhood)[3]. A diagnosis however can only be established at age 18+[4].
Discussion: Both Vampirism and Narcissism have their causes either pre-birth (genetics) or in early childhood. The fact that a diagnosis can only be made after years 18 and up doesn´t mean that the disorder isn´t present, it merely means that diagnoses aren´t established before that age because the personality is still forming[5].
I think it´s fair to conclude that Vampirism and Narcissism form and emerge roughly at the same age-brackets.

An illness? / Drawbacks
Vampirism: What most sources on Vampirism do agree on (though not all) is that a Vampire needs to feed[6][7]. The most popular reason for this is that the Vampire has a damaged or modified energy/chakra system and either has trouble taking in energy the common way, loses taken in energy quicker or in general just needs more energy than the average human being[7]. If vampires don´t feed they may become lethargic or even depressed[8]. Another drawback is that people subconsciously notice being fed upon and therefore distance themselves from the Vampire [9].
Narcissism: Narcissists need other people to give them attention and admiration[10], failure to acquire those often leads Narcissists to engage in self-calming and self-stimulation behaviour, which often takes the form of various addictions[11]. Their manipulative behaviour (which is used to garner the above mentioned attention and admiration) often has the same effect on people as the Vampires feeding does: it pushes them away and Narcissists often end up lonely and/or despised[11].
Narcissistic personality disorder is also of course a personality disorder and therefore, by definition, considered a mental illness[12].
Discussion: While Narcissism fits the clinical critera of an illness, Vampirism obviously doesn´t as the medical community has no interest in studying it. To me Vampirism sounds like it could be called an illness and even if we don´t wanna call it that it certainly has many parallels to one.
Drawbacks not only exist for both groups but they are also strikingly similar:

  • both need to ‘feed’ and if they don´t, problems arise (behaviour thats aimed at distraction but often has negative consequences (e.g. addictive behaviours like drug consumption or overeating))
  • social isolation can happen to both and consequences of that can be the same (e.g. depression)
  • Both are “damaged”. Either through a damaged energy system (Vampirism) or a weak sense of self-worth

Feeding
Vampirism: As alluded to above Vampires need to feed regularly and as most of you already know, these and many other forums have various guides on how to do that. The most common method is to envision tendrils penetrating the aura/skin/deeper layers of your target and then draining them through said tendrils. Long-term targets (which are fed upon regularly and who can be consenting or not) are called donors.
Narcissism: In order to fill up their low self-worth, Narcissists “elicit a constant stream of attention or narcissistic supply from others”[13]. This can go as far as the Narcissist violating all personal boundaries of the target [13] in order to get their needs met.
The aforementioned stream of attention is facilitated through creating a facade that paints the Narcissist in a positive light. Examples include appearing wealthy, smart, charming or confrontational. Reactions from other people are then collected as Narcissistic supply[13].
Discussion: Both groups use some sort of feeding mechanism. While the one that Vampires use is more occulty (i.e. unseen), there can be a lot of overlap as this passage from “The ethical psychic Vampire” shows: “Feeling hungry? Rile up your lover. Cling to a friend. Flirt with that guy who you know likes you, although you have no intention of actually delivering the goods [charming/using sexual tension]. Argue about abortion rights with someone who has very strong feelings about the subject [confrontational] […]”.
While diving into several sources it became apparent to me that Narcissists and Vampires are almost identical here, the only difference being occult feeding techniques like tendrils vs mundane techniques like manipulation. They both aim at the same thing though: feeding on energy/admiration.

Advantages/Abilities
Vampirism: There are a lot of lists online on what Vampires are good at. Focusing on non-occult advantages we mostly have stuff like being charismatic and charming. I also found websites claiming that they usually have a higher than average intelligence and that they can use their advantages to outshine non-Vampires in various areas of life (usually only when well fed), like being more successful in what they do, for example career-wise.
Narcissism: Narcissists are also often seen as charismatic and charming. After all it´s one way of wooing people in. Due to their need for presenting themselves as perfect and due to often having low empathy, Narcissits are also often very successful in their buisness life.
Discussion: If we exclude occult abilities that are often attributed to Vampires (super-human strength, etc.) I again see a 1:1 match here between the two groups. In fact they seem to be so incredibly similar here that I find it hard to add any more words to this section.

Closing thoughts
What do you think?
Has the occult community been searching for a way to deal with an illness that is usually resistant to therapy (and has only been an official diagnosis for 40 years now)?
Is Narcissism equal to Vampirism but with occult stuff added on top?
Is Narcissism one of several conditions that uses Vampire-like techniques?
None of the above?

[1] The Psychic Vampyres are the Real Vampires – V.K. Jehannum
[2] The ethical psychic Vampire, Raven Kaldera (p.8)
[3] Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia
[4] Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD): Causes, Symptoms, Treatment
[5] What Are Personality Disorders?.
[6] Psychic Vampyrism – V.K. Jehannum
[7] The ethical psychic Vampire, Raven Kaldera (p.6)
[8] The ethical psychic Vampire, Raven Kaldera (p.11)
[9] The ethical psychic Vampire, Raven Kaldera (p.13,14)
[10] Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia
[11] Therapie-Tools Schematherapie, Faßbinder, Schweiger, Jacob
[12] Personality Disorders: MedlinePlus.
[13] Narcissistic supply - Wikipedia

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This is my ramble on how I think vampirism works.

It’s basically energy working, which any human can learn to do, so, to an extent I agree with you when people “choose” to be “vampires” it’s normal people being poncy plus occult techniques.

I don’t think vampire that choose to call themselves that are particularly charming, intelligent or persuasive, personally, but neither are narcs except in their own minds as far as I can tell. Oily, but not naturally charming.

I do think there is such a thing as real vampire, and these are unfortunates with broken energy systems that mean they, like astral parasites, can’t effectively process non-human energy sources. They don’t naturally replenish their qi enough from food, sunlight, the moon, the cosmos. Not enough qi means declining health and sickness. These people must get energy from other humans or literally die.

I actually find the current trend in the occult to call yourself a vampire just because you figured out some energy working kind of insulting to real vampires who really struggle with a debilitating disorder.

So, yes, fake occult vampire are pretty narcissistic just be calling themselves that, they seem to want the cool points, and want to think what they’re doing is special, that they’re “apex predators” and wrap this whole romanticized crap around it, with no regard to or sometimes even the effort to research the people who actually suffer this. E.g., Michele Belanger.
Real vampires, are no more or less narcissistic than normal people.

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An interesting read.
Both your post here and the one in your thread talk a lot about people wanting to be Vampires who aren´t one. The way you explained Vampirism it makes a lot of sense to distinguish the two. But on that note: how is one to tell if one is a Vampire or not? Especially if one is a newbie?
When I first came across the concept I didn´t really want to bother with it. The promised advantages sounded nice, sure. But I felt like I had enough problems already so I didn´t want to run the risk of talking myself into having another issue. So I just stopped researching it completely and thought I was done with it. But it kept coming up time and time again. So I researched it a little more but quit again because of the reason mentioned above. Yet I still came across it again and again, even when not looking for it.
Some would say that it was calling to me (and that may be true) but this was too weak of a prove for me so I again stopped bothering with it. It still kept coming up. Finally I searched the whole web to see if there are signs to look out for. I tried, to the best of my ability to filter out nonsense from points that could be true, but after all of that I was far from being sure whether I am a Vampire or whether Im none. I put it aside again and it still kept coming up.
At some point I simply decided to just apply the siphoning techniques and see what happens. I have done that like maybe 3 times now and can´t say whether it helped in any way shape or form or not. But at some point I did think that if it keeps coming up that often I maybe should just go for it.

A lot of rambling to ask one question: how do I, as a noob, find out if I am one?

  1. Don’t feed and see how sick you get and how fast.
  2. Try to feed off a waterfall, or the sun or the cosmos and you can’t.
  3. Then feel off a human and your sickness goes away.

There’s been one person on here who said they were a vamp in terms of getting sick if they didn’t feed, but could pull from waterfalls, and I saw a person on a very old vamp forum that doesn’t exist anymore that taught himself to do it and it was an effort but he got there. That implies it’s possible to heal this condition with training.

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How fast would the sickness go away when feeding on a human?
Would a one time feeding suffice or would I have to do it multiple times in order to fill up my reserve?

Also,in your experience, how does the sickness manifest? Is it mostly the lethargic feeling?
I think this will be hard for me to determine because Im suffering from depression since years now. But it just got me thinking that the depression itself COULD be a symptom…
Just in case it is, and lets say I am completely unfed, would a one time feeding make me feel better immediately?

Another thing that just occured to me is that Ive spent a few weeks with a group of people and I felt FAR better during that time. I didnt even think of Vampirism back then so if that has anything to do with it at all I would have been feeding subconsciously. Now that Im mostly alone again I feel worse each day BUT, how do I make the distinction between all of this having anything to do with Vampirism or it merely being a sign of me not socializing enough?

As fast as you would normally recover from damage using your normal human healing abilities. Faster if you know energy working, you could use it to help you heal, but that’s a whole other topic, and not all edgy and trendy.

It’s usually worse than that, but that’s the start. It varies. Your immune system fails, and there’s a domino effect where the weakest part of you fails next, so it’s different for different people. Please do go ahead and read Michelle Belanger’s work, I read it after I knew real vampires and it matched perfectly with the things they reported.

You’re not unfed because you are human and you eat food. If you mean energy depleted, yes.

It’s normal for humans to share energy is social situations, we energetically support each other and balance each other out, the difference with a real vamp is they have nothing spare to give back. So people don’t like being around them as they start to associate feeling crappy with that person, and begin to avoid them without knowing why.

Some real vamps learn to automatically feed and seek out time with as many people as possible all the time, they don’t even know they’re dong it. I have a theory that a lot of extroverts are mildly vampiric in that they take more than they give and they can’t handle being alone for this reason, that they get depleted. Introverts are the reverse, they tend to give more and that’s why social situations can be exhausting for them. But it’s just a theory.

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Which one would you recommend?

Thats what I meant. Would I need to feed for a certain amount of time though?

It’s good to let your intuition lead you for your path here. Go to a bookstore, type in “Michelle Belanger”, and look through her titles, pick the one that draws you the most. Vampire in Their Own Words might be of interest.

I couldn’t say. I think you might want to cross that bridge when you get to it. Maybe go slow and keep notes.

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Alright. Thank you for your time.
I did begin reading Belangers Codex a few years back but it wasnt what I was looking for so I didnt bother to look at her other stuff.
Ill check it out now though.

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I agree with many of your points, but I do want to say that narcissism is often associated with a harsh, cruel negativity, not the person but the word itself.

It is what it is. I’ve known narcissists who were reasonable, respectable people. Some I had to tit for tat a bit, but we found a mutual respect based on recognizing the power and ability in the other person.

If this is what you are, then that is how it is. If you have to feed, you have to feed, and it is better to be intentional about this than to let it control you. Would you rather drain that toxic piece of shit or your wife? Do you really want your partner to become weak because of you?

I’m not the best person to ask about this, but there are relationship dynamics that can work very well for narcissists. The normies would probably be scared and confused, but if it gives both of you strength, then there yah go. The narcissists I know have benefited from having their egos validated. You don’t have to gas em up until they pop (that would be problematic), but saying nice things that are true tends to make most people feel good. You don’t want to lie or overinflate the ego, as the narcissistic tendency is to overinflate the ego, which is also what causes the most problems in their life as an overinflated ego tends to collapse into shame when the lies are laid bare.

That being said, the narcissists I have known have responded very well to validating their power. Let them sit their throne. I have my own domain, and it serves me well, but I do enjoy being part of the lives of certain others in a more support role. I have to be the gender-neutral God Emperor often enough as it is. I can certainly enjoy being the demon guardian/advisor of the Queen.

Just to be clear though, it is the case that I can only handle so much narcissism in my life. Not to be a downer though, because I spend quite a bit of time with two other psychopaths, and it is certainly the case that not everyone gets along the best with us. I find psychopathy to be outrageously attractive. Narcissism is also far more attractive to me than normal people without dark personalities, for they are supremely lacking in power and awareness, but I do what works for my particular setup. My particular setup is not exactly standard or average in any way (0 guys, 0-3 dicks, sometimes???), but I enjoy it. Maybe this wasn’t exactly what you were looking for with this thread, but I believe that magick can bring you who you need.

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Hey, your reply was indeed a bit out there but I enjoyed reading every passage of it :slight_smile:

I especially liked this part:

because it showed me 2 things.
1: there are people out there who like people with my personality.
2: I should show my true face more often.

1 is really hard warming and 2. is something thats coming up more and more lately anyway. How can a person that would like my true self engage with me when I´m not showing my true face? Admittedly it´s hard to show your true face when experience after experience in childhood and adolescense has shown you that it´s wrong to be you. But maybe there are indeed people out there who like my true face so I will work on that.
Another thing is that I myself also strongly prefer people who are in some sense damaged or different. The melancholical ones, the crazy ones, etc. Now, they still have to be people that I can talk rationally to. Someone over the top crazy is way too much for me. But that little sprinkle of craziness is absolutely hot.
Anyway, we´ve gone somewhat off-topic but I really appreciate your reply :heart:

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What if you can do both 2 and 3, what do you call that?

This is how I am being played right now. I am going to along with it because it feels much better than the nonsense threats that can’t be backed up and promises that won’t be backed up I usually get.

I have something like that going on going by the people I talk about. My current matron is a clearly psychopathic ESFP but all she has been doing has been feeding me information and pumping up my ego. It makes me paranoid.

If you cultivate qi from nature, and your qi deficiency sickness doesn’t go away, I would guess that’s a symptom of what I consider the hallmark of the real vamp… that he cannot appropriately utilise non human qi. In which case he isn’t feeding off the waterfall enough to count as calling that feeding, same with food, sun gazing etc.

Maybe the way vampirism is depicted is confusing people. Since energy is just a measure of change over time, maybe something else is being absorbed from other people in addition to the energy or vampires also get a normal or even an enhanced amount of energy from other sources.

Diva from Blood+ would have to eat like a Saiyan to be able to do her feats so I can safely reject the lore for being nonsense because it doesn’t follow the conservation of energy or give a reason to say it doesn’t apply in the sense we think of it.

I’m not at all confused if that’s your implication. I’ve been an energy worker for 30 years and worked with real vampires long before balg and this trend of non vampires pretending to be vamp came along.

I think it would be fair to say we have different worldviews and different language around it.

Energy is not the measure of change over time? It’s not a measure of anything. It’s what other things are made of.
That’s most likely momentum. p = mv, and v (velocity) = d/t, so p = mass times distance over time. Not quite the same thing.

Diva means “shining one” and usually refers to a specific type of spirit. Not sure how you’re using it here. Don’t know what “Blood+” is either. Saiyans don’t exist. This line just sounds really larpy and not related to the above conversation, which has nothing to do with whatever “lore” you are referring to, which you don’t specify. “Lore” is usually a term used with romantic/horror vampire fiction which has nothing to do with the discussion, is varies and is not a unified theory of vampirism, being self contradictory when different authors have different creative ideas.

If you think this was going to add to the conversation it would be helpful if you defined your terms and stated your assumptions.

I do have to say that I disagree on that.
For sure there are oily Narcissists (and non Narcissists), no doubt.
But there are definitely those that are charming, those that tell stories and those that pull people in.