Is The Source the Demiurge?

I recently read a bit from the Temple of the Black Light that pretty much describes the Source as being a false, Demiurgic light. The point is the we have to awaken our black flames and reunite with the formless Chaos.

Most of us know the Demiurge as being the guy vampirizing the world through Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. However, the more radical beauty is to not consider this Jaldabaoth as being the Demiurge, but as Source itself as being the Demiurge.

Source, Brahman, the “Heavenly Father”, Tao, Infinity, etc.

As we know, our physical plane is an emanation of the Source. The primary forces that compose what we view as life stem from the Source.

However, this Source itself stems from the Void. This suggests that both Void and Source are emanations of something higher, and the experience of some mystics allude to a reality that goes even beyond the Source and the Void. Together, the Source and the Void constitute the “unmanifest absolute”, the creative principle that arises from formless stillness. However, there is an “unmanifest unmanifest absolute” that goes even further beyond Source and Void.

To note, “”“Plato, as the speaker Timaeus, refers to the Demiurge frequently in the Socratic dialogue Timaeus, c. 360 BC. The main character refers to the Demiurge as the entity who “fashioned and shaped” the material world. Timaeus describes the Demiurge as unreservedly benevolent, and so it desires a world as good as possible. The world remains imperfect, however, because the Demiurge created the world out of a chaotic, indeterminate non-being.”""

The idea is that there is a hidden unity that surpasses the unity of Void and Source together. Most people call the unity of Source and Void the “One”, but the existence of realms beyond existence for me lends credence to the idea that the greatest trick of all time has been in misidentifying the Source/Void as the highest source of Being when it is actually just a veil that we have to pierce through.

What we call the Demiurge/Jaldabaoth that is a pig-like, worm-like entity trying to vampirize our energies might be, in a great trick of irony, intentionally using the name Demiurge in order to get us to focus our hatred on it (to empower it) rather than focusing our attention on the real Demiurge, the “Source” that most people from all over the world view as God.

Of course, the question is “Whose experiences or cosmologies can point us to a real place beyond Source and Void?” other than @C.Kendall 's experience with Lexmanah? The problem that I have is that merely worshipping Void/Chaos as the true G is not enough for me, so I can’t find myself going down the route of TBL.

In other words, " What is the real Unity beyond Source/Void, and how can we go beyond that real Unity to truly go beyond God?"


Your post reminds me the Qabalah concept of “Ain, Ain Soph, Ain Soph Aur”, the three veils beyond Quether.


"Ain is the highest and first of the veils. It is literally translated as ‘nothing’, or simply ‘no’; it is absolute emptiness, the opposite of existence, complete absence.

Ain Soph is the middle of the three veils, and it proceeds from Ain by necessity. It is literally translated as ‘no limit’. If there is nothing then there are no boundaries or limitations; this is the limitless foundation - the eternal in its purest sense.

Ain Soph Aur is the lower veil, situated closest to the Tree of Life, and it proceeds from Ain Soph as a necessity. It means ‘limitless or eternal light’. Without any limitations, all things happen by virtue of the fact that there is no reason why they shouldn’t.

Light plays a very important role in the philosophy and symbolism of Qabalah, and the Ain Soph Aur is that light. Light means many things to a Qabalist - the light of wisdom, of life, of grace and so on, but in attaching all these associations it is important to remember that these refer to our human experience of light, and the way an inner communion with the eternal light can heal and transform you, but not the simple nature of light in and of itself. So what is the nature of this mysterious light? In metaphysics such questions can be over-analyzed; the light of Qabalah is the same as the light described in science and experienced in our every day life, it is just that it is experienced in a more direct (Gnostic) manner, or to be more precise, in the manner that it experiences itself.
As Einsteins theory of relativity explains, if you were to travel at the speed of light then strange things would happen to space and time, and you would experience yourself to be in all places and times at once. You would, in other words, be eternal. This is the experience of light from its own perspective. When the world was created and the first light came into being this the entirety of space and time were created and held in a single moment (moment is an inappropriate word, but there is no other) within the nature of light itself. This eternal moment was the Ain Soph Aur."



Nope, because anything that has a quality, a definition, cannot be the limitless Source/All as defined in the Kybalion.

for exanple the Void is not a Regency-era dining table, the Demi-Urge is not facilitating ascent, the Source can only be found in that which transcends polarity. limit, definiton, etc.

The concept of Parashiva expressed as Shiva Nataraja is probably the closet to describing the stage right before what has limits and definitions becomes limitless and without quantifiable measurable aspects:

I could qualify this as “UPG” but really it’s more about semantics, when defining an essentially limitless, timeless, unquantifiable thing which can in and of itself create all limits, time, and matter, one cannot do it by saying there is an opposite and also a thing bigger than it - the thing bigger (so to speak) than it, must, in fact, be the thing which is being referred to.

Calling a “lesser” thing Source, such as “Light,” or a regional tribal mask of godhood, will not make it so, any than someone calling me a bitch will exempt me from income tax on the basis of being a canine. :stuck_out_tongue:


When the Demiurge tries to eat ya hit em with wanna these


I don’t exactly buy that, it’s another way of placing a veil of “unknowing” over something.

The problem with that is that multiple things can be thought of as being formless. Void, Chaos, and Source can all be thought of as indeterminate by definition of there being no determinate way to describe them.

In fact, your argument points to an underlying unity beneath Source and Void, since Soul Travelers’ experiences have shown that Source and Void are in a sense different. The problem is that merging with the Source does not mean that the Source is the real unity.

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Not “unknowing” but unquantifiable.

Formless is not a definition of Source, by which I mean that which lies back of, and behind (so to speak) all things - to call it merely formless says it cannot take form, that it has an opposite which is formed - but anything with an opposite cannot truly encompass all things, and contain all paradoxes.


the source is not space, it is not time, it is not energy, it is not matter, it is not thought, and it is not desire… nor is it the absence of these things. so really it is all and it is none, at the same time, transcending both. it is both a perfectly balanced equation and it is a paradox.

i dont think anyone can literally go there (or at least, not be able to return to existence)… i think when people “go there” they really just go to a representation of it, cuz “going there” implies that it has a border, which it doesnt because it cant be defined nor constrained,


nor can it be added to or subtracted from, so things and people cant go into it because then they would be adding themselves to it… but it is already them because it is the already complete potential of everything and everyone… am i making sense?


like… you cant move into a position you already occupy… because if you “do” then you havent really moved at all


My experience has been that Void is the space of the “breathing in” negative energy in which all potential exists, without form, and that one thing people call Source is the bindi/point of first creation (“breathing out”), that transcends all polarities and surpasses the prinaciples (vibration, gender, cause and effect) described in the Kybalion BUT which is still by way of having quantifiable aspects and being approached quite easily in a relatively normal state of mind - Joe Vitale describes it as a white board, and it can be worked with as such.

If Source has come to mean some Demi-urge linked to a small regional tribal godform, that leaves out as ever all the worlds and all the civilisations prior to Moses/Akhnaten/Zoroaster who had no such concept.

Going into Source past that point, you truly lose your mind (as in loss, not going insane) because as @anon27714670 says, you cannot technically “add yourself” to it, as you already are there and are originating from there - but the stronger your ego and will, the longer you can hold some aspect of basic You-ness (desire, and will) in order to operate with a substantial amount of its innate power that transcends cause and effect, time and space whilst still being able to direct it in one way, and not another.

I typed some of my experiences and thought about this in this thread: "In Darkness Bound" And The Psychology Of Demons.


Exactly, that’s why concepts like up, down, ascent, fall, etc., are useful metaphors but also binding chains if taken too literally. :+1:


One more thing before I go to make breakfast - IMO the question is not “Is The Source the Demiurge?” but rather, “Has the Demiurge lied about being the Source?”

And IMO the answer to that is yes, and to tens of millions of people, but the jig is up! :wink:


Void is the state of complete non-existance. Anything that exists must stand upon the void. The source is the very first state of causality to arise from the void. Many of us have contacted and unified with source, but I can’t logically rule out the existence of multiple sources.

I conceptualize the source as the light, and the void as the true source. The void could be understood as a state of existence having infinite potentiality and no actuality. Looking at it like that means that source is less of a creator and more of a gatekeeper. Source sacrifices potentiality in order to bring about actuality.

Thusly, Void can be seen as light and source as dark. Chaos is everything trying to exist at once, and the source destroys most of it so that we can think straight and have this conversation.

Up is down. Forward is sideways. Death is life.
Wait… what were we talking about?


No, the source isn’t. I’ve been part of it temporarily… It is the beginning and end of everything in existence.

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It’s starting to make sense now. The Source is the “One” underlying Void and the Demiurge. The Demiurge is what you call the “Source”, the first binding point of creation.

Gnosticism wouldn’t make the concept of the Demiurge so small as to include only one particular entity when it explicitly describes their idea of the Demiurge as that which is responsible for creation.

Still, the main point was that there is a bigger One underlying what most people would still call the “One”. The One that you call the One, the underlying unity of Source and Void in the unmanifest absolute (including that which is manifest and unmanifest), is still not the ultimate One.

Although, I honestly don’t know what the relation of the “One” you talk about is to the Void and Source.

Worship your self.

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The Demiurge is the head Archon who wishes to remain in power. It sees humans as livestock.


It’s possible that the demiurge is so conceited that it thinks it is source and the universe it inhabits is the only universe.

In one version of the story is that a goddess created him accidentally out of her emotions and then made a universe to contain him. The demiurge just assumed he created, her, that universe and everything in it. The goddess became the Earth we know as Gaia to watch over humanity.


Keep hearing that name
Can you give me a brief explanation on what is an Archon?