Is diet important in magick?


#1

Yep. I’ve found restricting some food help me enter trance easier and some makes it imposible. Also eating lightly and heavy helps or screw the possibility of trance.

My tips: Don’t overeat, no fried stuff, not too much sugar related stuff and fast sometimes a month (I fast at night) and leaving a time between food and ritual at least 1 hour

That way my capacity to enter trance is narrowed, what’s your experience


Importance of veganism?
#2

from my experience, proper diet is always underestimated. Not just for magick but overall health. I quit fast food over eight years ago and never went back. snack foods is also a no-no.

That said, my journals are filled with mixed experiences, regardless whether I ate fried foods that same evening or fasted and asked the gods for assistance. The bottom line is, its almost impossible to escape the crap that the US Food corporations are dishing out to everyone, particularly those living in city dwellings. I’ve noticed that normal veggies, particularly greens, almost immediately go bad within one - two days in the fridge. It seems that Amerika wants you to die quickly, unless you have the cash to buy clean food.

But what exactly is clean food these days?

Just because I practice magickal devotion does not mean I am a vegan. Fuck that!, although I will not go out for a kill I will savor the taste of bloody meat well cooked. I’ve had amazing pathworkings and third-eye visions if I ate a proper well-balanced meal. I do not want to be evoking and in the middle of my conjuration begin to hear my stomach growl or have thoughts of a grilled Rubens dancing before my eyes. Thats not the experience I am after.

Best advice would be as Yoga states, at the very least make an effort to remove some of the toxins from your body prior to ritual. Better yet, start changing your eating habits and start reading the nutritional contents label in food products. become aware of your environment, but do not go to the extreme.


#3

Yeah, I agree, I’ll never quit from beef, chicken or fish I take them 2 times a week at least, vegan lacks of good proteins (the best are in animal food, even they substitute with other food is not the same)


#4

This is simply untrue. I don’t mind if you eat meat but at least base your justification on something accurate.


#5

From the books I’ve read about diet they say so, I’ll post them when come back home


#6

A short explanation of dietary protein.

When we talk about dietary protein we are actually discussing amino acids, the “building blocks” of proteins.
Amino acids can be separated into 2 sections - essential and nonessential. All dietary protein is a mixture of these.
Nonessential amino acids are those which the human body is able to synthesise itself. Essential amino acids are those which can’t be made within the body and must be sources from food.
Animal proteins will always have a complete compliment of essential amino acids so by eating a steak you will not need to eat another food source to get you essentials.
Most plant sources will not contain a complete compliment of essential amino acids and it is therefore necessary to eat at least two different types to get the complete set for you diet.
So we could perhaps argue that foods that don’t contain a complete set of essential amino acids are of a lesser quality how ever that completely neglects other dietary factors.
Further, if you are vegetarian or vegan and having trouble getting essential amino acids you are going to be facing other health problems associated with vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Your diet really needs to be pretty bad (not to mention boring) to be falling short.
Based on the above, protein intake is a pretty poor reason to eat meat. There really are only two reasons to eat meat. Firstly because you are too lazy and lack the self control to build and maintain a vegetarian or vegan diet, which I think is unacceptable for serious Sorcerers. Or you just really like the taste, which is perfectly acceptable but needs to be embraced.

This is written from memory but I am happy to cite sources if you would like.


#7

Still at workplace, I get what you say, and I agree, I talked lightly about proteins, yes you’re right. You can indeed substitute your need of proteins from various sources not animals.

The reason I wouldnt go completely vegetarian (as a say I take 2/3 times a week fish/steak) besides proteins it’s the animal fat of meat wich also helps the metabolism improve it’s functioning, its accelerates it.

I dont consider myself a defender/attacker of vegetarian/fish/steak its just everything in excess does no good.

Plus you can say Im lazy but I prefer to call it practical

The books Ive read are U on a Diet and Spartan Health Regime, the latest one insists in the importance of food coming from animal kingdom the first one is a general


#8

Fats are in a similar situation, we are talking mostly about omega fatty acids. You do have to work slightly harder to get these, but once again a balanced vegetarian diet will meet these requirements.

In regards to the books you mention, we need to look at the context from which they were written. The first one deals with getting people to ""diet, people who need to diet generally have existing problems with self regulating their food so adding the added mental hurdle of not only cutting down on food but also removing meat, something which most people are under the impression is essential, would present a major deterent to its readers and affect its sales.

The second is targeted at the macho man who wants to look like he is straight out of 300 and it jus isn’t “manly” to be vegetarian. Once again we are looking sales demographics. It is possible to get this look without meat also.

If you want to learn about diet you really need to look at university level literature, just about everything designed for the consumer market won’t challenge it’s readers too much.

Once again, the choice is yours but lets be real about our rationalisations.


#9

U on a diet besides general overview of diet, it enters deeply in how the metabolism works from beginning to end, plus gives quite a good exercises to keep the body at its best, it isnt a lightly read, i really recommend it to anyone interested in learning how the body works internally and wants to get good eating habits. I dont know what’s the level of university books about diets but after goimg for 3 years (I had to give it up, even I was an very good at it), I consider this to be a must, and university quality.

About spartan health regimen, it’s not oriented to look like the 300 from the film, its oriented to eat as healthy as it’s possible plus it gives you some exercises charts to get fit, its not bodybuilding related. It analizes pros and cons of diet, the difference between food from past and food nowadays (not the same a chemichally treated tomato, than a natural tomato. Same as chicken, beef etc.) He states our ancestors ate quite better than us nowadays, beside exercising much more.

Africans, eskimals, indians from America, aboriginals from Australia. These tribes were much healthier/enduring than most of us nowadays and they ate a mix of vegetables + animals.

As I said I spoke lightly about proteins no problem admitting it. Nor do I have problems with vegetarian people, I just don’t feel it practical, plus many ex vegetarians have complained to me about the difficulty to get a balanced diet without animal products


#10

I also fast every night - usually for about 8 hours :slight_smile:


#11

Hey All,

My two cents:

I have read widely in the field of nutrition, including research papers and university level text books, looking for the "optimal’ diet, and I have come to the conclusion that there is really no such thing. About the only thing the ‘experts’ agree on is the fact humans have evolved to be omnivorous. Peoples from colder climates tend to eat more animal products than those from warmer climes because it helps them survive the winter (which, though not a current problem in modern times, there is still a genetic program to do so). There is also the issue of availability.

I think it is completely up to the individual as to what is best for their biology. Has anyone read The Four Hour Body by Tim Ferris? Its full of experiments Ferris conducted on himself that had results that fly in the face of conventional wisdom. Like eating grain fed organic beef twice a day for 28 days, yet lowering his cholesterol, increasing his testosterone, and decreasing body fat. Then there is the case of the vegetarian couple in France, that killed their child because of their fanatical restrictions to a vegetarian diet. They did not grasp the nutritional needs of a young child, needs their diet was inadequate to meet.

As far as magick is concerned, I believe whatever diet makes you healthy and increases your physical vitality, is the one that is right.

As I said: My two sense, for what its worth.


#12
interesting wavering curve of concepts in this thread-  one aspect "indirectly" touched on is a big part of what could be considered the occult (ie Hidden-revealed) part of Magick- 
  the questioning and experiencing vs assuming what is told 

(many will mention different pop-culture and even diff sub-cultural concepts, and yet most such ideas that all know are true include “Evocation isn’t possible” -working with spirit is either Evil-dangerous or a ‘waste of time’ both simul?)

-thus a tricky thing some Esoteric groups insist on critical thinking/logical training (which can be a trap, as not to learn rules to think- else become even more Programmed- but the ability to see assumptions, then perhaps test)

Heck even the I tried XYZ and it worked “for me” in “this situation” (others, else conditions?) -that doesn’t say much more than a correlation, not causation.

To tie to subject: I find that two (related) keys come from "fast"-purification...  

A) primarily to clear out the bowel system, not invasively by flushing, but not having “digestion” in process… completely changes the bloodflow, frees up nerve plexus in pelvic floor- etc. and

B) stabilizing the Hormone levels in the blood (body as well as brain-chem)… the focus in the second is often on the Bloodsugar, which is one of the slightest (just as surface issue and gross impact where science-tradition hasn’t yet developed, like Did a spirit respond to evocation or did it not? -that is a clear distinction, but with any skill in EvokeWorking one can determine more details about what happened…
in the same way, the diff glandular levels, not just disrupt-“irritating” a response, but the system homeostatically trying to rebalance, and thus one’s System active doing that.

Those above of course are not across the board an issue- but only certain types of Workings. Issue being when/what activities do you need to be still and focused-quiet inside to be able to clearly align to subtle combinations, and when/what activities do not require that (for instance the Release of Hatred does not; a matter of fact requires being near-out of control. -thus perhaps gulp some coffee before?

====
-either way, setting the balance point creates a window which lasts a bit (like being in free-fall) and then as the body is/was still active it again becomes out of balance on the back end (like in a fast, the start of it is disturbing- you hit a steady pt- and then too long)

  • like before, during and after “2nd wind” in running or the Exertion Zone (reaching for not quite there, then “IN the Zone”, and then one starts to lose it a bit…

#13

So bringing this back on track (and my appologies for the derail).

What I really wanted to establish here is what are we trying to get out of our diet. Now the reason I recommend more “advanced” literature on nutrition is because once you know what is required for basic nutrition - interms of kJ intake, macro break down (fats/carbs/proteins) and vitamins and minerals - we can then establish how to meet our physiological needs and can further tailor our diet to acheive physical goals, be it weight gain or weight loss or modifcation of intake to include/exclude certain food groups. Putting physiology to the side now we can look at how our diet affects us otherwise.

Do we beleive that food has a etheric/pranic content? If so how do we maximize our pranic gains?

Do we subscribe to the notion that by transgressing our own ethical code we create internal tension? If so then we need to analyis if our diet is creating these internal tensions.

Which brings use back to vegetarianism, specifically with a focus on raw foods. From here we are maximising the amount of “live” food which is generally accepted to have the highest pranic content. Also a vegetarian diet doesn’t raise as many far reaching social, economic, environmental or other ethical concerns.

The thing about being a Living God, is that you have to take responcibility for every aspect of your life and the deeper you go the more sensitive you will be to transgressing your own ethical stands. Its not a case of there being an absolute right and wrong but there comes a point where you decide what is personally appropriate and then work to reform your reality around this.

I personally find the far reaching effects that the meat industry has to be disgusting (and I’d be suprised if most people didn’t) and so don’t transgress my own ethical points.

Once again, I don’t expect you to agree or care about the same things I do only to be mindful of how this affects your deeper emotional and mental states.


#14

I agree.

My take on it: in the past year or so, I’ve stopped eating all grains except the occasional bit of rice (I like the texture and taste) on the basis agriculture was the start of the idea of persuading others to labour under a master to whom you pay taxes, from which sprang every desire to oppress thought and compel conformity, also there was sod all reason to go to war until we had fields we’d laboured in to protect, and a hard-won harvest in the storehouse to defend to the last man.

Once I stopped eating grains, I suspect especially gluten, my mind became clearer and my mood was better, and my skin, hair and nails improved as well, so it was evidently doing some real biological damage.

Sub-clinical gluten intolerance usually causes a dulling of the mind and a general low feeling, very handy for keeping the masses in line.

I think agriculture preceded and created the domestication of mankind and has led to every normalising force most of us on here probably stand against, at least in terms of our own choices.

As a result I’ve also cut down on dairy, I eat a bit of butter and have cream in coffee but that’s it, partly because I feel better and also the above-mentioned agricultural thing.

Also, I now eat meat, after a long period of vegetarianism, because there is no death in nature that’s as kind and clean as a well-performed abattoir kill, animals in the wild are torn to death, or fall sick or wounded and die of thirst and/or are eaten alive by insects and small rodents etc… this happened to a relative’s cat, poor thing was sick and got out, we found her half eaten by insects, including huge beetles that were ripping bits off her, dehydrated and emaciated and in terrible distress in someone’s garden - she was put down right away because there was nothing that could save her.

And any nature film will show the same or worse, I watched a documentary where a pack of wild dogs in India were ripping apart a deer and they kind of ripped it open slowly, bite by bite, from its asshole upwards (the less-defended end), the animal was plainly terrified and in horrible pain, trying to get away and in the end it was ripped apart while still just conscious, and died from loss of blood. That happens every day, and the bigger predators are faster to kill but it’s still not a better death than humans deliver.

Every animal I’ve owned or known has as much personality and capacity for fear as humans, and when they fall sick I’ve often seen fear in their eyes, so a “natural” death in the wild is far from easy or pleasant for them.

I’m aware of the cruelty in abattoirs and support a couple of campaign groups who work against it, but I eat meat from animals raised in good conditions by retailers who comply with good standards.

Air-miles - I’m English and I prefer to eat foods that don’t need to be shipped in from other continents (I make an exception for coffee, tea, and chocolate!) and that means I don’t really eat legumes, they’re more of an occasional thing now than a mainstay of my protein intake: I found the reliance on imported foods very off-putting about the raw vegan thing, also no society in history has practiced veganism, and the Asian cultures who traditionally practice vegetarianism (and even when they’re not, eat a diet high in starches from rice and noodles) are at a higher risk of type 2 diabetes and all the evils that brings, which makes me think that a diet high in starches writes bad crap into the human genetic code.

So, I basically eat fresh meat, fish, free-range eggs, fresh (or sometimes frozen) veg, some fruit and then the odd bit of cream, chocolate, rice or whatever, but mainly things our ancestors evolved eating - I like the Primal diet concepts (not so much Paleo) a lot. I was practicing as a vegetarian (dairy only, no fish or eggs) and haven’t noticed any major change in that respect either way, except feeling better since cutting grains which obviously means I have more energy in general and that rolls over into my practice.

That’s been my experiences so far with food, not at all meant as an assault on people who prefer not to eat animal flesh, but just offering a different look at the ethics and spiritual reasons for being a meat-eater.

Finally, I don’t drink alcohol, for me it’s a mind-dulling tool of enslavement that was used by the Romans against my genetic ancestors, the northern europeans, who deliberately sold them strong wine and didn’t tell them it was used diluted because it made them easier to oppress, and it’s used to this day to keep people under control, fighing each other in a drunken haze, worrying about their intake, and with every sip paying hefty taxes to the govt who then reprimand you if you drink so much you become sick.

JMO and if other people find the things I shun empowering, I’m happy for you and it just goes to show we’re not mass-produced little robots, innit? :wink:


#15

Being healthy is important since your body is a vessel to channel power here.
Eating a balanced diet, means your elemental structure closer to this world will be more balanced and healthy.


#16

Here’s my ideas.

Firstly, let me start off by saying I am in terrible physical shape. Overweight, lazy, and generally not wanting to physically work. Magically working, I’m always up for though.

And what I’ve eaten hasn’t made me any worse at magic. Look at some of my successes, if anything I’m ascending faster and diet has had nothing to do with that.

I invoke darkness on a daily basis, I feed from all entities that approach me, I make war with whatever I damn well please- physiology has had no impact on my magickal ascent.

“Now I’m pushing faster and nobody dare oppose.” -Zack Hemsey

Though the last part of that sentence is not true, as I’ve met a lot of opposition, I’m still standing. Victorious. Stronger.

While being physically healthy helps keep the physical gate up to full power, and generally extends the lifespan, I am proof that it is not required to do anything.