So ive been recently delving into astrology, and tho im not sure how much of the events in our lives are predetermined, i always thought we had a bit more control then not in the matter, but due to my recent study of astrology, and life experiences im starting to feel like im not in control at all, even tho ive attempted magic to change things for myself, i cant seem to get things to work out the way i wish them too, maybe that’s just my lack of skill, but i would like to know if maybe its just destiny holding me back, and if it is then is there is something that i can do about it? or is my fate set in stone.
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That’s sort of only answerable by your own experiences and there are plenty of people here who would say hey that’s what magick is for, to make change.
When you look through @Verdo’s repository of fantastical success stories,
you can be left with little doubt that some of those results would be near impossible by normal means.
If it is true that we are all stuck within our own destiny then that makes doing magick the equivalent to playing hopscotch in our spare time. What is personally verifiable is when you do a ritual on yourself for an intended change, such as to make yourself feel better emotionally or to open yourself up to something.
If you try that and you see an improvement then you can say that you took charge and made that happen and you might notice some things that usually get in the way suddenly wasn’t as much of an issue this time around and you might find things flow in a much better way.
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Fate is certainly real. I have cast more than 700 Geomancy charts, and done more than 400 tarot readings, and I have only an exceptionally rare few times seen the outcome of a chart be changed. Let’s say, less than 10 times as far as I can recall or tell.
Fate is hard to move beyond. Traditionally, our spirit is influenced by the Celestial World, and our emotions and passions are controlled by our spirit. When you act with your emotions, with your drives, your passions, you move with the influence of the Celestial World. And you can see the influence of the Celestial World very clearly by simply observing how people and animals act within each Planetary Hour. People are more argumentive and irritated in the Hour of Mars, and more loving and talkative in the Hour of Venus etc.
Also with @CovertCreator’s reply, acts of magick itself is part of fate. Most people perform magick because of a desire or passion. Magickal paths that are especially focused on gratifying desires are likely to be especially influenced by fate. I’m not sure where this idea that magick is somehow outside of fate comes from (this comment is by no means an attack on you @CovertCreator! I wouldn’t want the tone of this post to be misinterpreted).
The Stoics seem to have believed that everything is indeed pre-determined. That is a fine view. However, the Medieval European (and earlier Hermetic) and Platonist(?) view is that the Soul is capable of free will, being created by God/The Demiurge (note that in Platonism the Demiruge is considered completely beneficent. I am not talking about the Gnostic view of the Demiurge. Plotinus was a Gnostic before becoming a Platonist and makes lengthy arguments against them in his Enneads), and so the Soul is above fate (ruled by the Celestial World). I currently follow the Medieval view.
So, moving beyond fate is possible in my opinion. A natal chart can be moved beyond. Traditionally, I have heard this was done through Theurgy. That is, a practice called “God Work”. That can be recieving the light of the Gods to be in greater communion with them. Ultimately, the goal of Theurgy is union with The One.
Acting uninfluenced by emotions is certainly difficult. But perhaps you can increase your actions stemming from your Soul.
Being aware of what is to come is a good step.
Aphorism 5 of the Centiloquium attributed to Ptolemy says this “A skilful person, acquainted with the nature of the stars, is enabled to avert many of their effects, and to prepare himself for those effects before they arrive.” (Translated by Henry Coley and given in Chapter XX of his Clavis Astrologiae Elimata or A Key to the Whole Art of Astrology, 1676)
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I believe that a modified destiny would be the real one, and in combinations of causes (including thoughts etc.) leading unavoidably to certain effects. Some or all of them will in turn be other causes etc.
What is geomancy?how it is different from natal chart astrology?
Geomancy is a complex form of divination that was widely practiced in the Medieval Ages, but is largely forgotten today, and has been largely forgotten for the past hundreds of years.
Geomancy is more like Horary Astrology (There are various branches of traditional astrology, such as Horary, Electional, Medical, Mundane, and Natal astrology, as opposed to the singular natal astrology in modern astrology. All of this has similarly been forgotten for the past hundreds of years), and indeed borrows the House chart and various techniques from it. You ask a question and divine the answer by casting a Geomancy chart. The difference is that Geomancy does not look at the position of the Heavens to divine answers.
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I used to think everything was possible, then i realized it’s not.
Fruits does not fall far from the tree…
The enviroment and people we grow up with, cannot be changed. Destiny exists.
Some people seems destined to shine, thanks to multiple optimal coincidences.
Some not.
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This certainly interesting, im curious what your thoughts would be on hypnosis, subliminals or other methods used to used to change oneself internaly (like passions, emotions, mental blocks etc.) and how that would affect the outcome of ones destiny, assuming of course, that the only thing preventing us from changing our fate, are internal and not external.
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Hi there! I’m afraid I have not studied hypnosis and subliminals etc. But you mention these practices with the purpose of internal change. Because of that, I reckon that it does not change one’s fate, because the practitioner has a desire to change their fate. This means fate has led them to do hypnosis or subliminals, so this practice for a person is very much part of fate/destiny.
Now, if you have good knoweldge of your fate (and, this is not such a easy task and requires good knowledge. Deep knowledge of traditional (pre-1700s) natal astrology is one method of determining a person’s fate), then you are certainly free to try and affect it with hypnosis and such, and see what happens.
But after all, it was something that influenced you to seek after methods to change your fate. Often times, this is externally the community one is in, or the culture one is in. And internally a desire or dissatisfaction, etc. This gives us a hint of a perspective that it is not so much an individual nature that drives us on, but rather we are a massive collection of influences, and this is what drives us on, even towards these things.
But as I said, if you know your fate, then you can certainly try to change it! See what happens.
But this idea that change of the self may change fate (in this context) seems to me very akin to another common notion: That magick alters fate. I have spoken elsewhere that this is a rather strange idea.
Magick is not outside of fate. Especially magick done because of a desire or such. This is why I argue that LHP focused magick (under some definitions of LHP) is actually hyper-fate influenced. And indeed, I have seen it quite strongly in some magicians natal charts. If you perform magick to fulfil your desires and chase after them, being influenced by desire and passions, then indeed this is highly influenced by fate.
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I want to add however, that I do not at all see fate in a pessimistic light. The general view of fate today is in a very negative light. But I do not see it like this at all. Rather, fate is supereme order, and indeed, the word “cosmos” means “That which is beautifully ordered”, fate keeps this wonderful cosmos moving and ordered, it is a wonderful interweaving of everything. It gives meaning and purpose to everything from the highest to the lowest. Even the “lowest” and the smallest thing has its own power and plays its role in the world. All this leads to the perfection of the world. We see, it is not chaos and disorder. And we see in nature, nature is highly interactive. The modern business idea of “it’s kill or be killed!”, or “only the strong survive!” Is a terribly false corruption and misunderstanding of biological evolution. It rather developed in the business enviroment, where deception and deciet is encouraged due to greed, but this tends to remove all happiness.
And we see in a society, when the people are corrupt, this is because of the heart of that society, its ruler, is similarly corrupt. When the people are good and ordered, their ruler is often good and ordered. Similarly, when a hive of bees are peaceful, it is because their queen is peaceful. When they are aggresive, it is because their queen is aggressive.
But we do not see the gross corruption that we see in human society so much in nature. In human society, we see what is appears to be disorder at points (although I do not personally see this as disorder). But in nature, everything is supremely ordered, when there is a lack of things, it is nourished, and everything has been given the image of immortality. Few are not moved by the sublime peace when looking at it as a whole. And similarly, this is an image (although imperfect), of the ultimate source of the cosmos, and the Lords ruling over the very cosmos.
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I’m still having a hard time understanding all of this, but i’m guessing fate either works like “if guy A wants to achieve goal B, but goal B is not in his fate, he will never achieve goal B because its not his fate, even if he uses magic, things just wont work no matter what, (making magic kinda pointless)”, or is it more like "If guy A wants to achieve goal B so long as fate gave him resources (like knowledge of magic) to achieve the goal he will achieve it because it was already his fate to desire it, and since he desired it, it was clear that he would do magic to achieve the goal, therefore was obvious he would achieve goal B) , sorry for the convoluted, and over simplified examples of what i think fate could be, just trying to understand what fate even is at this point.
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We all want to believe in Western society that if you put your mind to something and work hard you will succeed in life. The pull yourself up “by your own bootstraps” argument.
And to a certain extent, this is true.
We know though that with support, help, and yes, sheer luck and coincidence, some of us succeed more than others. Ever heard the statement, “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.”
A person can do what he wishes to do, but he can’t wish what he wants to wish… that is ruled by destiny!
Karma is the accumulation of debt of action in the course of a person’s lifetime.
Dharma is the duty that a person is born into in order to work off this karma.
E. M., a certain billionaire, aligned himself with his duty (with help from many investors). That’s how he is able to manifest his wealth.
MLK saw a need to help his people, and in turn, all of humanity. He sacrificed his relative comfort (and life) to align himself with his duty. That’s how he became one of the greatest civil rights leaders.
As far as fate is concerned, we all have one fate… Death. We all are fated to transition from the physical realm to the spiritual realm. No one can escape this. Many have tried and failed.
These are my few comments on this subject.
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I think it’s a mixture of the above two. I believe there may be certain lessons and objectives that we had a hand in setting, prior to this incarnation.
I think many things are movable, can be influenced by you and external factors, but something’s- ultimately if you miss it or didn’t get the point or learn what you individually did wrong in any given situation, it will ultimately cycle back around and repeat itself, likely because you are making similar choices leading up to the event, despite them being seemingly different at face value.
Of course one might note I register all paths as being valid and personal too.
I think that the path of least resistance is likely to be the way you end up having to take, once you’ve exhausted and ruined all the opportunities or they otherwise been removed from the board, and you find yourself seeing only one way in a situation.
Other things I see a whole lot of choice, only being limited by my own minds limitation and my lack of ability to direct myself.
Because most of the time we don’t even have a clear picture of what is right for us, and desirable- so how the hell do you think you are going to get there if life doesn’t nudge ya along and say hey, this isn’t actually right for you…
So I think it’s both, and by grand design to get us back on track when we fall out of the purview of our purpose in life.
I think we can make just about any choice we want, as long as it keeps us in alignment with ourselves. I think when we try to force ourselves into boxes that are not right for us, is where fate intervenes and says nope, this won’t work anyway you cut the cake.
Because ultimately we are choosing things that don’t fit with us on a deeper level than most of us have awareness of.
Like I think many people are really confused in their perceptions of themselves and what they actually want when they set out to make change in life- they lack clarity into their inner desires and true wants, likely because we pretty much expect whatever those secret desires are, well they probably aren’t attainable based on experience, what we are told, and what we see.
Personal thoughts on the subject! Please forgive me jumping in!
Apparently I’m fated to hit reply and post in the wrong thread and have typos forever, because I’m too tired of my typo issue, to decide what I should do to help the issue 
.
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You can change your destiny, you cannot change your fate. Every decision we make alters our destiny, but our fate is set.
For example, you’re driving down a long highway. You may pull over and stay at a motel for a while. There is a diner you might go in to have a meal. You may even choose to stay in the roadside town for longer. Work at the diner, date someone, get married at the church, have some kids, become the sheriff, work at the motel, your kids grow up and move out of town, etc. You do everything and anything you want in this place along this road.
At the end of the road is a cliff. Eventually, you’re going over the cliff. Understand? There is no bridge. No airplane. This is it. The end.
The road represents life. The various things you do in the town are your decisions to change your destiny. The cliff is your fate.
No matter what you do, you’re going over that cliff!
The ultimate fate is death. No matter how long you live, and how successful you are, from the billionaire to the homeless on the streets and in between, death is the ultimate equalizer that no one can escape from.
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Of course you can change your fate, imo it’s not a real thing it’s just a teaching concept.
So, I don’t believe in destiny or fate, except as the ways older cultures explained probability. These are treated as if they are set in stone and they are not, this makes zero sense, logically. Nothing is permanent, least of all patterns of probability. Not even things set in stone are permanent as stone can be broken.
All you need to do to change your “fate”, is change up what you’re doing. Make new resolutions, change what your read, your friends you hand out with, the media you consume:
Gurdjeff said:
“Change yourself to change your world”
This is the truth and imo cannot be understated. Your future hasn’t been made yet, so it’s always changeable. Some probabilities are high and need a lot of energy to alter them, but probability is not certainty.
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So like me performing magick to get my desire was led by fate? Sounds true tho because my partner’s 12th house shows that she would have a love affair with someone in occult and that was me.