Is belief at all necessary for manifestation?


#1

G’day,

I have had scores of experiences in real life to show that belief actually doesnt matter at all while manifesting.In fact if u have heard the story of swami vivekananda,he was a goddamn atheist but somehow he manifested the advent of sri ramakrishna into his life and went on to become one of the most famous hindu monks.In fact as for my life,I have had numerous occasions when I couldnt study well,gave the most horrible exams without a doubt in mind that there could be no way I could get above 50% nd there were exams where I believed from the way I had given the exam,a decent marks…the result just the reverse,I scored more than 60% in the exam I feared most nd the xam I gave the best only scored just above 50%.

I was once good in maths.But every time I gave a good exam totally confident after re checking the paper that I would get 100/100 it would fall 12 marks / 10 marks short without valid reasons.In history I hoped nothing just maybe 70/100 and it came out 90/100 nd everybody said like I was better at history than at maths.In fact I hated history like anything nd was terrible at it…

My sister used to be a goddamn astrology believer,she took all the necessary precautions nd measurements as guided by astrological systems for her marraige.Result-Life threatning Divorce!!!

At the college social ,I played Drifting by Andy Mckee perfectly.We were absolutely sure friends and enemies alike I would get the first prize because to be honest there was no competition at all for me with the rest.It was cheered and applauded by all the most,everyone affirmed it to be the best performance even I had got my rhythm correct.Result-I get a consolation prize(3rd)…the 1st and 2nd guys they were sitting outside thinking they didnt win it.When they did they were like how??What the hell!!!

To be honest I dont believe at all from my life experiences that belief matters while manifesting.The whole new age stuff is pretty bullsht and to be honest I have never seen 1 goddamn manifestation occurring where u apply 1)State ur desire 2)Feel it happened 3)Act like it already happened and stay in those happy vibes.

In fact these things have made me much more realistic even at times I believe perhaps that magick and manifestation is a total nonsense and/or pretty truncated process.

I really dont know how the things I feared most have fared well in my life and they continue to serve me well even if I fear them for example I had the fear of getting beat up by a mob on the grounds of medical negligence in my hospital as it is very common as the death rate here is quite high.It turned out that though I used to work in total phobia everyday,I got great love from patients and seniors as well.Nothing bad happened though I waited for something bad to happen every single minute!!!

And the things I loved to do,well they didnt get me much ahead in life and had to discard them from time to time.

I really need an explanation into my wierd situation where the conventional standards of manifestation (maybe u cud say new age)have applied in reverse most of the times.

All I know from my life is:

1)Belief is out of question when it comes to manifestation

2)Expecting that the results have already occurred and u stay secretly happy and peaceful,most of the time had given me just the opposite results regardless of hard work put into it.

3)Hard Work seems to hardly matter to be honest!!!This I am saying from the core of my heart :frowning:

4)Life totally seems to be programmed and the default option is that to experience it and not bend it to will!!!Magick would be the 1st step to do it perhaps!Most people even dont have access to powerful magick required to change their lives sadly!!Wud really like to know the guys who control us like puppets right from birth till death!

5)And yeah probably reincarnation occurs.That wud explain our talents,mozart nd all the people who remarkably remembered their past lives as documented by Psychologist Ian Stevenson from Europe an Asia!!
And it also gives me a reason to exist and live,otherwise maybe the best thing to do - commit suicide :frowning:

Will be waiting for ur reply from members of this forum.What do u think guys?

Thanks

Reek


#2

Allow me to address your axioms.

1)Belief is out of question when it comes to manifestation

The whole idea of “belief” is interesting. I believe in results. Results are reactions to causes. These reactions can be set into motion through nonphysical means. One such method that I’ve seen work amazingly is sigil magick. Using my extremely simple method of sigil opening, I’ve taken people who are skeptics, athetists, and even complete cynics, and have walked them through my method, and they’ve gotten results… often results so forceful that they run as far and fast away from me as they can.

But there has to be some sort of initial action to cause this reaction. “Manifestation” doesn’t just happen because you drift around on a cloud thinking that good things are going to happen to you. It is a reaction, and in order for anything to react, there has to be an initial action, a primary mover. This is ritual. This is the BIG part of the whole “Manifestation” ideology that is missing.

2)Expecting that the results have already occurred and u stay secretly happy and peaceful,most of the time had given me just the opposite results regardless of hard work put into it.

Again, this is because you’re not doing anything initially to cause a reaction in the world. Homeless and insane people walk around convinced of all sorts of things, and are by all evidence dead wrong. Put magick into action, and it will cause a reaction.

3)Hard Work seems to hardly matter to be honest!!!This I am saying from the core of my heart :frowning:

Well, this is just silly. I’m sorry to say it’s silly, as you prequalified the statement by saying that it’s from the core of your heart… but it is indeed silly. Hard work is essential to attaining and obtaining anything and everything.

4)Life totally seems to be programmed and the default option is that to experience it and not bend it to will!!!Magick would be the 1st step to do it perhaps!Most people even dont have access to powerful magick required to change their lives sadly!!Wud really like to know the guys who control us like puppets right from birth till death!

You create every aspect of your own existence. This isn’t philosophy - it’s physics. Everything that you see and experience is nothing but meaningless quantum soup until your brain organizes it into something useful. And it organizes it in accordance with your memories, beliefs, and expectations - most of which have origins in genetic consciousness and the unconscious. Through magick, we consciously take the reins.

I DO know some of these folks at the “top,” and most of them work very hard on making sure that other people NEVER find this information. A few of them keep a close eye on me, and I receive occasional phone calls and unexpected in-person visits telling me that I’m crossing some sort of line of secrecy, and that I better watch myself. So, if what we’re doing here at BALG is threatening to those who do control the tides of destiny, then we’re on to something very powerful!

5)And yeah probably reincarnation occurs.That wud explain our talents,mozart nd all the people who remarkably remembered their past lives as documented by Psychologist Ian Stevenson from Europe an Asia!!
And it also gives me a reason to exist and live,otherwise maybe the best thing to do - commit suicide :frowning:

Reincarnation is extremely misunderstood. I’m going to reveal a lot about this in the Mastering Soul Travel course later this year. The samsaric consciousness dies shortly after the death of the body, unless you’re able to fuse it with the atman through Mastering the Godlike Power of Soul Travel and taking control over this otherwise spontaneous process.


#3

If the samsaric counciouss didnt die after the physical death…we would have billions of souls in the Astral wandering around and maybe watching living people and maybe making changes. This would be a disaster maybe? Or crazy stuff would happen.

When you get immortality and can keep alive your counciouness… can you still change stuff through magick?
Lets say you successful got immortality and someone murder you. Would the murderer be pretty screwed?


#4

“You create every aspect of your own existence. This isn’t philosophy - it’s physics. Everything that you see and experience is nothing but meaningless quantum soup until your brain organizes it into something useful. And it organizes it in accordance with your memories, beliefs, and expectations - most of which have origins in genetic consciousness and the unconscious. Through magick, we consciously take the reins.”

I’d have to agree with Mr. Koetting on this point. It truly is all quantum mechanics. Peter Carroll addresses this A LOT in his books on Chaos Magick, and he may have been one of the first persons to address this…I’m no expert here I’m just going off my memory.

If you do the research AstralReek, you will find that there ARE DOCUMENTED SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS that PROVE particles ONLY come into “existence” when the scientist’s subjective eyes/focus/consciousness gaze into the microscope.

What this is telling us on a very fundamental level is, that it’s my attention or my focus/consciousness that is bringing to life Reality. In this case it would be peering at particles on a sub-atomic level.

In Buddhist parlance: Wherever one puts their attention is what is being created and experienced in that particular moment in time.

OR

Things ONLY come into existence whenever my attention is placed on it.

If you have an interest in the Eastern Schools regarding such matters, I would strongly urge you to invest in “A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma (Vipassana Meditation and the Buddha’s Teachings)” by Bhikkhu Bodhi.

Abhidhamma addresses Buddhist Psychology, Metaphysics, and most importantly nature of mind and consciousness. This is one of THE most intense texts on consciousness ever written…and I’m not just saying that…you do the research and you will see.

Quite frankly, a text like that will assist you in separating how your “feeling” from the reality of how and what the nature of mind IS.

In other words (and please know it is not my intention to hurt you in any way, but to snap you out of this horrid mind state you are in): You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and your circumstances and literally start changing your thinking patterns my friend. I would say Mindfulness of Breathing is the place to start (Anapanasati). It sounds like you may be in Australia yes? I envy you my friend if you are.

Some of the greatest LIVING masters are in AU. Check out Ajahn Brahm and also Sayalay Dipankara…I think she is in AU as well.

M


#5

PART DEUX:

EA is right again about the brain literally “making sense” of the quantum soup. Boys and girls, I hate to tell you all this, but there is no Reality “out there”…

EVERYTHING takes place in the mind (totally different subject matter). BUT FIRST: all information is processed within the human brain.

EXPERIMENT: right now as you read these words…STOP…and now pinch your arm. Where are you feeling the pain? If you said the arm you are wrong. If you said in my brain:) you were right.

The brain & it’s associated nerve ganglia is the processing center, nerves run down to the arm where you pinched yourself. The “pain” which is a label is processed ALL in the brain. You only “know” that your arm hurts a little because of how the Human Limbic System works and is set up. The arm is just an apparatus that holds nerves in it so the brain and process info so the mind can then decipher it, thus, so the human species can navigate itself.

Whew! I going to eat dinner now. All that writing made me hungry.

M


#6

Reek, the thing is that nobody controls you, at least without permission. It is actually quite easy to get away from “their” influence, but folks are caught up in the game so it really is us agreeing that all this stuff is important. So wanting to know about the guys who “control” us is quite a defeating perspective to hold considering that you give them the power to operate your life. We make up all this stuff, not the other way around. They just orchestrated the conditions, and most of that is still us doing the heavy lifting for it.

When you talk about work, I really suggest that you take the time to understand what your definition of “work” actually is. There are people who labor a lot, breaking their back for several hours a day just to make slave wages, but whether or not that is work is debatable. When you say something “works”, it is not simply that thing laboring or performing physical exertion. Rather, you are talking about it performing a task that completes a specific purpose, and in that manner most people’s labor does not equate to work. People labor at a job, in hopes that they will have better lives. However, many people’s jobs cause their life utter ruin, so in that case their labor is hardly work at all.

I can hardly say that yoga or magick is not work, and often requires more of yourself than any form of normal labor that is labeled as work. It is easy to say that life just “happens”, but without you perceiving it, you cannot verify at all that life would exist period. So whether or not you are actively working through your life with spiritual force does not disqualify whether or not life happens.

New age stuff is not even applicable, as it is taught in a manner to get customers, point blank. Rarely do you see a program of good efficacy that highlights the use and building of energy, training the mind to control various altered states, working with elemental properties of existence… none of that is really mentioned in the New Age. However, there are people who accidentally use those small suggestions to efficacy, because they generally do generally know that good shit will happen to them. All their energy brings that forth for them, and what people call expectation is actually manic hope. Hope is rife with doubt, so of course folks fail.

I can’t really comment on your activities, honestly because I have never met you. However, I have met a lot of people who are talking about things you have gone through, and upon further examination it was clear that their situations went exactly as they should’ve, and weren’t contrary to magical parameters at all. I can’t speak for you, there is always a possibility of exception. But I do have experience with several thousands cases of supposed “contrary happenings”, and it really just turned out that people tend to be really deficient at thinking beyond the 1st or 2nd layer of reasoning they have been trained to follow.

So I don’t know man, I can say that I can understand where you are coming from on one end. I stopped doing ritual magick for a time and started focusing on basic skills through more traditional means. Doing that, a lot of things opened up, and a lot of manifestations occurred. So from that perspective, it would seem what you are implying would fit into my case.

However, this happened not because I stopped trying to work on actively creating my life, I rather decided that my power was going to come from mastering the best work I could do right now, which was basics. Energy work, mind training, peak physical conditioning… these things I work at mastering first instead of trying to “fake-it-til-you-make-it”. That doesn’t work for me now, and it probably never will. But I was am able to let go of my desires because I have a pressing certainty that everything I need is getting taken care of with my work with yoga. I was feeling a lot of EA’s work and principles, but I didn’t really have a plan of action that worked for me going at his stuff right now. I wasn’t able to garner anything that consistently worked for me, things that I could feel. I could feel the yoga, and it would train me to tackle evocation and spiritual exploration very thoroughly.

So, this isn’t something that happens overnight, and certainly doesn’t happen without taking time to really know yourself and what you can do. There are many ways to power, and there are so many ways because there are so many different types of people. I really like yoga, I think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but for others, Western Magick is that same sliced bread. But if it is going to work, just like anything else, you got to at least put forth some effort, and if it is going to be something you do consistently, you are going to have belief in it regardless. Hell, you put these axioms together, and you seem to believe in them. I could disagree with them, but if you became rich because of them, who am I to say you are wrong?

Just be careful before you go throwing things like this together, because these are pretty far-encompassing statements that fit int a lot of life facets. It pays to study your life in great detail before bringing make such bold claims as the ones you have put up, because I am sure there is more to the situations you brought up than what you have perceived.


#7

This hits on some things that go through my mind constantly. I think there’s a new wave of magic that’s just getting started, and I do often wonder what we can do to make sure that the presentation of information to neophytes is as efficient as possible - which means being much more careful about what words we use and what we emphasize–and being as mindful as possible about the cultural/religious baggage that certain words and phrases have.

For example, “hard work.” I grew up in a family where I was told that life is punishingly difficult. That I would spend my entire life doing work I hated for someone else’s benefit, that mature, grown-up people never get to do anything they want to do and accept this as a matter of course. You’re just sort of desperate and hard and miserable for a while and then you die. That’s the idea a lot of people get from the phrase “hard work.” To me, “hard,” is a word that registers futility and despair. It’s an emotional word that I’ve come to find cartoonish.

I honestly find very little in life that’s “hard.” Challenging? Difficult? Complex? Sure. But “hard” is the word you use when you have emotional reasons for not wanting to act, but no substantive reasons. It’s a thumb-sucking word.

If you see that part of your task is setting your emotional baggage and expectations aside when it’s time to begin your work, you’ll find there are very few tasks that are really “hard” in the sense that most people use the word. What most people experience as “hard” is unnecessary physiological strain - stress that is mostly emotional.
So I do worry that so many magicians stress “hard work” in severe tones to newbies. The fundamental task for most people starting out is learning to work productively.

What does productive work look like? It is persistent. It begins and ends at a designated time, and that time is sacrosanct. It has the courage to at least show up, and to at least face problems directly instead of avoiding them. When it’s time to work, all baggage is checked at the door. All that needs to happen in the designated window is that the specific task gets worked on. There is no expectation of perfection. There is a quiet acceptance that mistakes occur and changes might have to be made.

Maybe that seems like a long walk around the barn, but I think we need to start re-framing the way initiates think about work. It’s one of the most empowering things you can do for someone.

The work of magic is “tricky” - there may be gaps in your information that could save you loads of time, it might take some noodling to make things work, and you WILL have to face things that you are psychologically or emotionally disinclined to deal with. But if I called it “hard” I’d feel like a liar. As with many difficult tasks in life, your first thought upon the first successful manifestation via magic is likely to be a befuddled and perhaps slightly disappointed sentence along the lines of, “Gee…that was ludicrously easy.”


#8

Yea, I suggest using things like good work, or just work. Like I said, labor and work are two different things, and while there is always some element of labor in work, there is much labor that can be done without any work being accomplished whatsoever. So we really have to run through things with a comb and peel back what we mean, and say what we mean as well as mean what we say. Language is a tricky thing, because it is symbolic and our minds create many associations with words like you said. So we can be sabotaging our work by saying something is “hard”, when it really is meant that you have to put in good work. Most “hard” work in my experience is not work at all, just really shitty labor.


#9

Metatron & Sultitan,

You guys are on point man. Reek, there is a lot of wisdom in what they just said below. I read your post, and I feel it man, truly I feel your words I believe I’m coming out of a cycle of time very similar to what you are describing. That cycle lasted about 1.5 yrs, after the death of my father and now I have no parents and you speak of “belief”. I must be the one to have the belief. The belief that I CAN. For me I think this is my lesson at this point in my life. I must belief in myself. I must continue. I must find my own truth.

You will be totally OK man. Fuck, you have EA writing back to you on your post personally addressing your questions, and god knows how many of the world’s Blackest Magick practitioners!!! We won’t let you let yourself down man…just do what is in your heart.


#10

Thanx a lot to everyone who replied,specially to the master himself!!!U all make me persevere more nd more inspite of the failures I’ve seen in life…so once again thanx a lot

When I said I didnt believe hard work doesnt work,I actually meant it to be honest.I know it may not sound good to experienced guys like EA but before I came across EA,I was a follower of Robert Bruce.

He gave me the catch basket concept of testing ur belief system to faciltate my growth.He asked me to first write down what I had experienced and my own inferences.That helps to get into the reality of the situation as the Higher Self helps attract influences to make u know abt the truth about the situation.

Thats what I tried.Regardless of what others say,I tried affirmations,secret by rhonda byrne and all kinds of self help long before i knew this forum existed.Nothing worked to be honest.I had to admit that this stuff doesnt work.Then I found magick and EA.

Today perhaps the process paid off with EA personally answering mah question first off.As well as my forum buddies metatron,mode_439,divinator and sultitan!

Regarding hard work,I cited some of the above examples I gave.What I meant was giving hard work(or believing that u r working hard on something) perhaps doesnt affect the results in a proportionate manner.I m not bringing magick into this.Pure plain normal day to day stuff.

Like working hard and getting all the concepts right for maths->give the exam->if question was ok expecting a range of marks u cud get->Results may not be within ur range like u cud commit silly mistakes nd all.Nd I’ve seen people no matter how much they try to rectify themselves they still commit the same mistakes over nd over again.

Hard work surely pays off but I guess intelligent approach should be the approach rather than unplanned hard work!Unplanned or improper hard work is really frustrating !Intelligent approaches can be perhaps based upon natural talents,using help from other people,spirits etc.

Initially I used to think I am the source of everything like EA suggests,but to be honest I scanned my life and activities a million times.It always felt like I was a part of destiny with no control whatsoever.
Spcecifically when the things I feared most when approached gave me great success,fame and the things in which I had natural talent let me down to be honest,I really didnt know what the manifestation process was all about.

I have started my magickal practices ,getting my sync experiences bit by bit…lets see what future holds nd thanks again to everybody for ur valuable support!!!

Tk care


#11

Again, I really would have to know what it is that happened, as I can’t really ascertain really if you are any good at math. You may think this, and you may actually be good at math, but until I know for sure I cannot comment on that. With the things of fear… again, I would have to know more about those things as well. But let me give you an example of fear, and why it hasn’t effected me, and maybe it might make some sense to you.

I was shot in the back when I 17, by a friend nonetheless who had been watching one-too-many episodes of the Sopranos. When I got out, and up to this day, I have not liked unknown people walking behind me for any extended period of time. I can say that even though I look fine, I am actually quite paranoid about the idea that one day I will get shot in the back, and living on the Westside of Chicago, that is a very likely thing to occur.

However, I also know in my mind that such a fear was learned, and honestly not sensible at all. I absolutely hate cowardice, and almost anything in my mind that is considered cowardice is considered completely ridiculous, even if it does make sense. This is not a conscious ideal in my head, in fact the paranoia of being attacked or shot is constantly in my conscious forefront. However, the older, stronger, and more admirable mindset of hating cowardice is deep-seated in who I want to realize, and something connects me to that being who fights its way to consciousness despite my current self’s continuous flaws.

So quite honestly, even though this fear exists, it’s unlikely that I would manifest due to another contrary mindset blocking it. Am I saying that this is your case? No, but I am saying that, again, you might really want to take an inventory of yourself, because the inventory that you have at least relayed here appears that it could at least have some unknowns you haven’t addressed yet. Hell, I know that when I was in school, especially in math, I made careless mistakes because I was good at it, and that can easily happen in the more complex tiers of mathematics. Again, I don’t know this situation, but there are very simple and even more earthly reasons why things go the way they have been going.

Things like affirmations, and the techniques you mention barely work because they are hash out of old techniques. Most people who use affirmations have no clue how to get to a highly receptive mindstate, and they almost always lust after result. I would ask, were you really particularly confident in this work when you did it, a confidence that gave you enough calm that you truly expected, not hoped, it would happen? I’ve done this work, too, and I honestly never had the attitude or skills necessary to make it work. In order for them to work, you would need months, and that is if you conquered lust for result.

Again, you have to see what people are actually thinking when they try to rectify themselves to say whether what they did was work. Many people will follow a program, and following that program is why they fail. They everything by the letter, and yet if you asked them about who they were, you could easily see that they were destined to fail doing things the way they do. Self-rectification, or any sort of real self-improvement work, involves a great deal of learning who you are and what you really want to do. Anything else is just mindless labor, because it will fall short of it’s purpose.

When I am saying this, I am including all the instances I have gone through, and again, this truth may mean nothing to you. It may be completely irrelevant, but in my experience, this world has not such a great job of producing well-thought-effective people. I thought I was hot because I was always way smarter than everyone else around me, and then I got to be alone with myself and realized I was, and still am a child. It’s hard to accept, but once you do, then things can start to clear up, at least for me. Try to learn to strip things to the bones, and rid yourself of biases that you may have toward yourself, your friends, your family, your enemies… everyone. It helps you see more clearly, and I can tell that at least some of these things will make a lot more sense if you do.


#12

I generally look into my past nd analyze patterns of emotions and work and events trying to figure out the process but so far no help.

Robert Bruce though supports affirmations but admits they take a lot of time to manifest.

At present I m trying to concentrate on my present,trying to master the sync,scrying…thats it…more practice less theory…lets see what happens!