Astrology is heavily subjective, as in it’s real if you give power to it.
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Just seen a documentary yesterday. I already forgot some details but indeed it looks like science didn’t find proofs to astrology, example: 2 groups of people and, amongst them, astrological characteristics didn’t seem to make an actual difference.
I can feel shifts such as when Scorpio season begins etc, in a tangible way. Often I won’t know about it beforehand and look it up afterwards, but I felt it 100%. So I have to say in my experience it is real whether you acknowledge it or not. That being said you don’t have to obsess over charts and let it rule your life.
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One study does not equal all of science. The scientific process is pure, but the scientific institution is human, and therefore flawed. Anything controversial is not going to be seriously studied by anyone who has a career they don’t want to lose.
Thinking of astrology, remember the planets in our solar system are made up with different mineral content than the earth, some of them very high in heavy metals. Do you think nothing would be affected at all if you swung a giant magnet past the earth? Oversimplification of course, but that’s essentially what mercury retrograde is.
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It’s real to those who practice it, but doesn’t really seem to hold much water to those who don’t.
Science has shown that the other planets in our solar system exert a subtle influence on our own through imperceptible gravitational affects and the like, but their energetic influence on our physical and mental makeup and magick are…minuscule at best.
No, it does not. If it did, then how could anyone possibly become a " living god" if their magick is dependent on whatever external astronomical bodies happened to randomly be in the sky at the moment of their birth?
As Shakespeare wrote in his play Julius Caesar four hundred years ago: “The fault, dear Brutus, likes not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings.” In other words, you and you alone are responsible for the actions you decide to take or not take and the consequences thereof. You can have, be, and do, whatever you want, if you have but the will to act. Your “stars” are no excuse.
And to throw another quote in there, this time from pop culture: In the movie Batman begins, Bruce Wayne makes an excuse as to why his father didn’t make an effort to stop the man from shooting him and his wife, and Ra’s Al Guhl asks if it would have stopped him. When Bruce replies that it is different because he has had training, Ra’s retorts with: “The training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act.”
As far as astrology is concerned, it could be rephrased as “The stars are nothing! The will is everything. The will to act.”
Considering that, scientifically speaking, Mercury retrograde is actually an optical illusion created by the differences in orbit between Mercury and Earth that makes it seem like the planet is travelling backwards in its orbit around the sun, this analogy doesn’t make sense because the planet is actually no closer to us than it usually is. And since it is an optical illusion, it’s effect is solely dependent on our perception of it. If not viewed from the position of Earth, Mercury retrograde doesn’t actually exist.
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If it were simply a magnetic force then each planet would give more or less the same effect, instead Jupiter is said to bring prosperity in the physical world, Mercury affects the mind and is also pure motion, Venus is love and joy, Mars is destruction or the collapse of structure. Nor would it really matter much what constellation they appear to be in from our point of view. Mars in Aries is very different from Mars in Scorpio. Then there is also the issue of imaginary points such as the Lot of Fortune, Lot of Spirit, and Black Moon, which aren’t actual objects but are believed to have a powerful effect in astrology.
I’ll add two of my previous posts on this subject:
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Planets are most certainly not always the same distance away from us…
I do agree though that astrology has no bearing on ones magickal potential
You are correct. However, they are never so close as to exert any noticeable effect upon our planet. The only astrological body that exerts any real, observable, effect upon the earth is the moon, the gravity of which affects the ocean’s tides, and the sun, which, being a nuclear furnace par excellence, puts out more radiation than a billion of our most powerful bombs.
Basically, everything in this thread can be summed up as “Astrology is as real as you believe it to be. It is your perception that makes it so.”
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I tend to believe in astrology as a viable power…and that includes the moon…I’m surprised no one has brought that up…apologies if someone did and I missed it…on my cell in a work meeting🤣. But it feels to me that planetary conditions could add some juice to magic. As far as my astrological birth chart determining my
destiny, I second DK completely.
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Cassius is such a turd. Cry Havoc! And let slip the dogs of war!
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I guess we could say that about a lot of the things that we perceive. Any way I don’t really obsess over astrology that much so I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just adding my thoughts to the discussion. I’m not sure that I agree that the energy of other planets can’t be perceived during certain transits and retrogrades, but I don’t care that much anyway tbh.
I will say it doesn’t surprise me that experienced magicians don’t think astrology matters, because in my mind doing magick is like attaching a motor to your boat while everyone else just drifts along rudderless. It makes sense that magicians probably would be the type of people least affected.
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It is said that a wise man rules over the stars, but this does not mean that he rules over the influences which come from the stars in the sky. It means that he rules over the powers which exist in his own constitution.
Paracelsus
The funny thing is, it was most likely the educated, and detail oriented, ceremonial magicians that basically created Western astrology and its assorted correspondences. No one else had the knowledge, or the leisure time for that matter, to sit and observe the movements of the planets across the sky, or to do the complex mathematical calculations that were sometimes required.
A “cunning woman,” or witch, didn’t give a toss about the planets. At most, they paid attention only to the sun and the moon, as those two bodies, being the largest in the sky, had direct effects upon the local harvests. It’s seriously doubtful to me that they would have waited until Friday in the hour of Venus just to do a love spell for some young thing that came to them pining away, for example.
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Its kind of like karma. Pouring belief into it will put you in the system, to repeat the answers given above.
Is astrology real? I mean, there was a time, a long time, that we thought plantes were heavens, and the realm of fixed stars was either the furthest heaven or one before that. Or even worse, we thought Earth was at the center of the universe for a long time.
Planets indirectly affect Earth yes, Jupiter swallowing or changing routes of asteroids is one example. But stuff like changing ones mood or characteristics, because planets or stars aligned in some way? This is certainly a system I don’t wanna shove myself into.
(I know there is more to astrology, just saying)
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On the other hand- Hargrove lays out the formula in Magickal Influence…Practical Jinn Magick too.
It really depends on which way the wind’s blowing as to where I fall here…which is why I should probably shut up.
The thing is, is that exercising the patience and discipline necessary to calculate and wait for the right time DOES seem like an act of will to me. It is cunning if you ask me- the devil often is in the details.
I know when I’m raging and ready to curse…I am very content to bide my time so that I can harness every freakin’ ounce of power to throw at the unfortunate soul who has wronged me.
For what it’s worth, there is also a shit ton of power in the moment. And if the moment happens to be at 10 AM and in the “wrong” planet, oh fuckin well. Let the lightning fly
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Yet, he doesn’t in Goetia Pathworking or Demons of Deception, books based on the Goetia, and the Theurgia-Goetia, both of which are part of the Lesser Key of Solomon, and use astrological observance in its traditional method. 
It can be, if approached with that mindset, rather than the usual “Oh no, i did my money spell on Saturday instead of Thursday so now it’s not going to work 'cause the planets are all wrong” line of thinking.
I personally think magick can be done any time and anywhere, and astrological timing, or planetary correspondences might add a bit of nuance, but are far from absolutely necessary or mandatory.
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Depends on what kind of astrology and what aspects of it you are talking about.
In western astrology the 1st point of focus is the sun or the soul and it uses a different set of calculations to pull its references from.
Where as vedic astrology the first point of focus is the rising sign = the self, followed by the moon= the mind, followed by the sun = the soul.
As to can it have an effect on what magick you can do?
I would say no since that isn’t the point of it. It is a tool of insight and as such can be an aid in showing where natural resistances and strengths are in terms of what aspects of life may push back more against magical operations verses those that seem to flow as easily as a river down hill.
In vedic astrology it has many uses one of which is working out which energies are helping or hindering and which need to be balanced through rituals, actions, mantra ect. It is a way of building a dynamic balance in your reality. Ideally with you heading toward your ideal life.
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In this way it can be used both as a tool and integer in various elemental or planetary operations with many pantheons.
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And I think this is where I fall too. I just know when I’m pissed, I get greedy for every advantage I can get… 
Interesting point in differentiating the Goetia from other spirits as far as Hargrove goes. Maybe cuz Pathworking is more recent and he’s evolved/changed???
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So I dunno where the thought pattern of it needing to be a necessity or mandatory came from but speaking from my own experiences in utilizing planetary timing I was taught it is a simple way to add planetary magick to a given operation. The same applies to lunar and seasonal phases to magickal timing. It is a way to layer additional power onto the operation.
NOT a needed key for an operation to work.
Although it can also help narrow down where a given operation may have gained added effects if the manifestation seemed off kilter.
For example tryin to do a love ritual on the day of saturn in the hour of mars could result in some dark passions being introduced to the mix.