Is the incantation that’s given for opening the astral gate the same one used for opening the squares?
Thanks.Gonna get started on opening the squares after work.
I was wondering how others would respond to your question- as I understand KoF, its not so much that the astral Gate vs the Squares…
rather it uses the method of being in the “astral gate” while opening the square (using that 3 part activation incant)… (the way the Necronomicon seems to be written what to do when “walking the gate” ~laying down in it… vs many who comment on that process seem to skip the use of the Archway-gate…
[vs opening the square directly… ie without use of]
[as in Bk of A the 4 gateways (1 general, and 1 for each of the 3 "types" of spirits).. the Opening of a portal purely (either to travel through, or just to access, vs then using a sigil .. in the same way- if gaze/activate/"open" the astral-gate "archway" as if it was a square comes to mind, I wonder what that might do -on its own. (not sure if it grabs my interest, but seems could be a different opening).
I got the same feeling from KoF as I did with the Necronomicon that if you’re not opening and traveling the gates that you’re either not prepared or getting the full experience of using the squares.I can’t astral project yet so I was basically wondering if the gate in KoF is necessary.Although I truly want to experience it I haven’t reached a level where I’m able.
<I do sense that Kof and N_ “travelling” processes is not the same as the imagine-consciously directing “astral-projection”… its more you start the process and it flows-drawing you into it… its like charging a place via partial evocation-structuring (and rather than putting it into an “object”, into a shape on the ground- they lay into it… and the vortex generated in addition, then flows-pulls… Anyway- I think of the arch&the squares… vs “opening a square” (which I have trouble opening, vs sigils are any else such- something about letters, words, my thought want to just read them vs “see them”)
(both projecting-visions and travelling using these rites seems to differ from “guided path-viz” that some systems use.)
-but I think of journeying there (or opening a portal to allow something-energies from “there” to flow into your local) as a different rite from calling a Name (which were found after travelling there, by the writer of the grimmoire)… sort of like a book that writes about directions to get to an island country, then writes about the journey there and some contacts made on that IslandCountry (a rolodex of names, #s, etc). So one could “just read the bk” or “following the instructions to travel there” or “just contact those names that they found”… I think all 3 are different.
*in the same way I hear many writing about the use of the Squares in the Bk of Abramelim… which never made sense to me, as it seems to say A) first part is the story/explanation, but also how to mental-prepare character for B) the steps “the 6months”… finished by the H:G:A: and then… C) getting information from the Infernals (relates to this systems world-view) on what to do to get value-powers… etc.
Key being, it makes sense to me that if one did B… ie did the “6months” themselves, the would then get their own technics, which may or may not be the same… and if you received a notebook of someone else’s phone#s… you could call them, but they wouldn’t be people you knew, and to say:
'I’m calling you as I found your ph# in a book from someone else." seems strange. And there is a statement in that, which seems to say warning make sure you do the "Conversation &Communion With"before ____ (but it seems one could call up, via a Rite- either full Evocation or just “Contact” of the Demon-subprinces, etc. or the “6month rite”… or both in seq, but seems they are distinct… in the same way using the Name&sigil listed (either after contacting the ruler of that kingdom, or not… and either after or without having travelled via Square to that realm… as if you one did go to the Kingdom of Flame (via the Sq), if following the same process as the writer of that Grimoire, its seems one would make one’s own Contacts there… and may not be the same names/sigils at all(!)
so this is just 1 perspective, but I’ve used the sigils-names prior to Contacting a kingdom of flame (sort of like calling-ahead before going on a trip there, having a local contact), and then travel there via process… (it seems in your last “if not opening and travelling the gates that you’re either not prepared (n)or getting the full experience of using the squares.”
–it seems you question is perhaps about using not the sigil/names of Entities listed in the KoF, but rather using a Sq without travelling there? (opening a door, but not the supporting rite to travel that generates the vortex) Just like I suppose one could read aloud, or consciously “say” the incantation (of 3 parts), but I dont think that is at all the same thing as how one needs to incant-it… as being in the state to activate the first part of the gate, the mind starts to blank… and then the 3rd part ‘atz falu, pan ta___’ only flows forth in the ‘nothing’ seems to be forcing vocalization and not-quite thought-sounds of a mind that is quiet and … vs if just say-it… I find ‘rantka ma-a…’ speaking to a room generates a strong field feeling (in me at least, but perhaps in the room as well), but not the same as, well as KoF mentions in the section where the gate and incants are listed, of author’s poss theory of what is occurring.
-anyway, I don’t think the “wrong” way will be hurtful (in this case, as there are magickal trad steps that do tap something more than the thought-emot mind patterns written-spoken about, but if cultural-thought patterns ok to experiment and see)… worst a sense of confusion-zap that lasts a bit, more likely little will happen… if you try and something works: compare contrast that…
(have you tried with/without the incantation, different-uses of the Sqs…) opening a Portal-contact to a Kingdom of Flame “without use of” Gate, Sq, or even Sigil or Seal? I think reaching out “directly” if you can sense anything- then try a support Tool and using of structures, and stregthens more so… after stabilizing again reach out ‘directly’… and then (most of the previously published seem, to me, to be consecrations of tools by a person that has generated the ability to Contact&Channel the forces that the tool will support, prior to the making of the tool… thus GoldenDawn only presents in the ‘innerorder’ ie after all the elemental-grades… other “freeform” authors figure to jump to the end, and then say Chaos, or more advanced-magic doesn’t need to be constrained by system, and then say things are more subtle then claimed… well, if the energy tapped is small, little happens, if you follow a system that is wired to a full-charge of “electrical-power” (so to speak) things lightup…
that's just one perspective on many writings/groups that imply "all this stuff is in your mind-imagination so just believe what you want and it can be anything".. but not to say it is like a physical-objective "reality" either...
it is getting your “mind-stuff” to contact the underlying programming (and just as in a video-game one can find a “glitch” or even a “cheat-code” the programmers put in to test, or even hid inside ~EasterEgg?
-still in the game, but have to see what is in the “Code” that supports the programming, not being something you can “see” all you see/exper ‘is’ programming… what supports and is underneath- what is the Nature (Neter) of the Programming?
-or just get notes from a Hacker/gamer that found something to do that activates part of that code.....