I'm both LHP and RHP, but also neither,

Let me preface this by saying that this is my personal opinion. I am not attacking or being hostile toward anyone or any path, and you are valid in anything that you do, as long as you aren’t hurting yourself in the process, not that that’s any of my business. This is a really long post explaining some personal opinions of mine.

I’m a solitary witch, and I don’t follow any popular creed in particular. I joined this community because I dabble in angel magick, and you all seemed like you knew about it. Part of why I joined was because I got tired of researching with no avail, and I didn’t feel like busting open any barely translated grimories. I came here to see, and also to open myself up to different perspectives. Being in any echo chamber, no matter how right you think it is, is still detrimental to your growth as not only a practitioner, but a maturing person, so I came to a place that was in deep… or at least, much deeper than I am.

No, this is not my introduction. I already did one, but I want to give a perspective that I feel that this forum can be missing sometimes-- apathy. Unlike one of my other favorite places to hang out, you all don’t concern yourselves with morals, which is fine. I don’t particularly care, your path is your own, and it isn’t any of my business. I’ve been lurking here for a while, before making an account, and I can see that this forum primarily consists of those who work in the LHP, and my other community primarily consists of those who work in the RHP. The energies are very different, and I enjoy both of them, but I saw an interesting question get asked, both here and there:
How can someone be both RHP and LHP?
I would like to answer that to the best of my ability. I think I’m neither,

I can be because I’m solitary. Other practitioners generally have little influence on what I believe, other than the basics… That being said, a lot of what I identify as can be considered contradictory-- I’m interested in the occult and witchcraft, but I also believe in science and the fruits of man (which aren’t opposed to each other in my opinion, but I find that a lot of people believe that to be the case). I care about the welfare of people on principle alone, but I also couldn’t care less.

I’m RHP because I don’t do much work for my own benefit-- I don’t care about power, I’m not particularly in dire need of money, love and romance is irrelevant, and I don’t hate anyone. I admit, I can be petty, but I’m working on getting rid of that. But in that same breath, I don’t care about returning to heaven, or dust, or the natural order, or whatever. I don’t care about becoming one with God, or the One, or returning my consciousness the Divine. If it ends up that way, okay, it doesn’t matter. I don’t like the idea of fate or destiny, either, so miss me with that.

I’m LHP because I think breaking tradition and set morality is important for progress, but I don’t offend for the sake of offending. I think that’s a shallow, empty pursuit. I break tradition because it is efficient for me to do so. Why should I follow society anyway, it’s obviously not helping anyone, and it sure as hell ain’t helping me. I have personal morals and boundaries that I follow. I don’t kill people who fucked me over because it doesn’t help me, nor does it resolve the past. I treat others the way I want to be treated, because it’s the easiest way to get things done. There’s no need for me to be a dark edgelord, I personally get nothing out of it but irritation. I also don’t care about ascending to Godhood in this context, either. If I do, cool, but if I don’t, I won’t be particularly missing anything important.

I’m not apathetic, but I think that’s the best way I can explain it. I’m human. I don’t look for love, but I’m open to falling. I bleed red, and when I get sad, I cry. It gets difficult sometimes, and I might have trouble being vulnerable, but I’ll do my best to stay vulnerable to return the favor to those who are around me. I have dreams, some of which sound like they’re the height of morality, like opening up a foster home. I have habits which sound like they’re the pinnacle of degeneration, none of which I’m saying here because it’s probably illegal. I know my place, and I have no interest in being anything other than a pillar people can lean on. I like helping people, it makes me feel good inside, and I like seeing people happy. So, in this case, my reasons for helping people might be a selfish attempt to feel better, but hey, the outcome is the same either way.

The only thing I’m looking to gain is wisdom. I know that deep down, I’ve got a moral system that many people would think is strange, but I think everyone does, even those on the LHP. Everyone has lines they won’t cross-- be it selling your soul, selling a prostitute, or selling data. We’ve all got boundaries, and to some I might seem like a bitch… but that’s what I do!

Depending on your definition of LHP or RHP, I could be either/or. I don’t care about changing the world or myself on a big scale, but there’s one thing I do care about, in the midst of all of this apathy; I care about people. None of you have ever talked to me personally, but that’s just in my blood. I like people happy, I like people content. But things get so complicated, just saying that. I can’t do anything about it, so I’ll settle for making the people in my community happy. I want to be better, and since I have siblings, I want to grow into someone that they can look up to. That’s what I care about, I want the wisdom to be a better person, but I will never look at someone as lesser, whether they’re a murderer or a girl scout. That probably pissed a lot of people off. So in a way, that excludes me from a lot of communities.

At the end of the day, all I want is to work with Raziel, so he can give me the wisdom to understand how things work. Maybe then, I can use what I learn in this realm to make a change, no matter how small.

The point of this disgustingly long blog is that I want people to understand that you don’t have to fall cleanly into either camp. You don’t have to be in any camp. Magic is magic, and labeling yourself doesn’t do much for your growth, nor is it all that important. It just helps you find a common community and finding relevant information, that’s all. I’m not that complicated compared to a lot of people. I like self-improvement and I like giving to the community. Darling, that’s as cookie cutter as it gets. It’s a pretty generic message, but it’s good advice: Just do you.


It’s ok, you don’t need to put yourself in a box.


It is probably better to practice both, to have two hands :wink: As I saw, here are many people who practice LHP and RHP at the same time. It is best to learn and know as much as you can, take from that what you need to achieve your goals, and don’t hesitate if this make you more LHP or RHP, I would think more if this will make or bring you closer to a person you want to be.


I don’t fall into either, I don’t really believe in either of them to be honest, to me LHP and RHP are the same thing, similar general moral ideals, same various religious people, one just accepts taboos and one rejects them.

I personally just consider myself a practitioner because my skills I’ve practiced and learned are just that general skills that I use for my benefit but I’ve also used for the benefit of others. I don’t consider it a “middle path” either because the whole concept of rhp, middle, and lhp is a waste of time.


I couldnt have said it any better. I feel we must be similar. My name stands for His or Hers High and Holy Grand Lord Ambivalence IV. I prefer the word ambivalence over apathy but whats the difference really. I am nothing, and I am everything.

The whole thing is a made up paradigm. Lhp, rhp, its all just a coin. A facade we introduce to ourselves to decorate the path we walk. I walked this path first and foremost for knowledge and understanding. The only power I ask for is that which will allow me to help myself and other better.

Its always good to see a calm level headed post here :santa:

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Congratulations, you are a chaos magician.


Not necessarily, depending on how you define chaos magician. Chaos Magick is usually about suspending disbelief and using that for rituals.

(Also, is that a Battle for Wesnoth profile picture?)

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Yes! It is a battle for Wesnoth profile picture.


Man such a classic that game :slight_smile: good ol Drakes.

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I am confused why some people think that LHP and RHP have anything to do with morals or attitude. I am also a practitioner of “both paths” as it were, I work actively with the Tree of Life and recently with the Tree of Death, for BOTH are the Qabala. Left hand path traditionaly simply means one that uses active forces for spiritual awakening, such as dancing, drugs, sex, etc. Think orgiastic energy, essentially witchcraft. LHP is about exploring the Universe from the outside. The RHP, is about contemplation and inner work. LHP used to be where novices started before developing the skills and wisdom to move forward with RHP work.

Nowhere written does it say “to be LHP one must be an asshole” because let me tell you there are plenty of assholes no matter where you go. Plenty of RHP think they have achieved communion with their HGA and try to Lord it over everyone. Though I am glad that your other community is more upbeat or apathetic? I am wondering if they are an open forum like this one, or one that you must belong to an organization such as A:.A:., OTO, Golden Dawn etc to access. Those orders have methods of weeding out the “trouble makers” before they are given access.

I am thinking of the LBRP line “For about me flame the pentagram and in the column the six ray star”. The column is in the center of two “opposing” forces, uniting and balancing the micro and macrocosm. So naturally understanding both and even working both, in my opinion, is necessary if one’s aim is enlightenment. If one simply wants to improve their mundane lives then there are many ways of doing that, both magickal and non.

Thank you for your post.

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Because the actual definition has morality included in it.


It’s whatever works for you and makes you happy op.

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From a spiritual perspective both paths achieve similar outcomes when worked separately. The goal of both the rhp and lhp is to seek unification with the source. The difference between them is when the lhp magician unites with the source they choose to separate from it in order to pursue self deification. They both achieve “enlightenment” if enlightenment means unification.

One path doesn’t trump the other because of muh skillz and wizdoms. It just boils down to what you decide to do with the knowledge you’ve gained from unification.


When I was researching LHP and RHP, morals were involved in the definition. More like LHP didn’t concern themselves with traditional morals as much as RHP did. Definitely not saying that LHP practitioners are assholes, they just have a moral code that suits their needs better. Not saying that RHP are the holy grail of morals either, there’s weirdos in both camps.

To answer your question. the other community is pretty open! It’s not specific to RHP users, or the occult at all. It’s mostly white/light witches who dabble in the occult for their practices.

Thanks for your reply! I appreciate it.

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I guess I just fundamentally disagree with that definition. First, morals are completely subjective to the individual. What are “traditional” morals then? Agreed upon rights and wrongs? Everyone has their own code of conduct, partly programmed by their environment and partly built via contemplation. So who gets to define what the traditional acceptable morals are, can I judge others based on my moral code and then denounce them as evil or LHP if they don’t match me? Many would claim Christianity as the RHP moral code, but how laughable that would be. Their entire system is based on oppression and control through fear. But I digress. What is acceptable or not also changes yearly these days. Maybe you are saying LHP is about rebelling against social order? I think many would agree there.

According to many RHP practitioners, ANY magick performed outside of achieving communication with HGA is black magick and LHP. Which would mean that all witchcraft, no matter how “light” it is, is in fact LHP. Are they right? Maybe. After all it is impossible to be non-destructive when creating change. Death is a fact of life, infact it is a core mechanism. Without change and death there would be no movement, no breath, no heat.

My argument always comes down to, toss out the “paths” and the “black v.s white magick” nonsense. All acts are Divine, for how could they not be? What it all comes down to is intent and what you are capable of accepting. Nothing else matters.

These are of course my thoughts and opinions. Also what community is it? I am also a initiated Wiccan and have been in a few different Orders.


That’s a bit shortsighted. Everyone is rebelling against something these days and it doesn’t make them lhp. I think individuality is the most important aspect of the lhp. Once somebody knows who and what they truly are rebellion becomes a natural part of life for them.

All magick is done for selfish reasons.


I don’t see it left hand or right hand.
I compare it to the qliphothic tree.
And me going around it to reach the top. Instead of advancing through each sphere.

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