I had to laugh when I read this

I read this post on another site and I had to laugh. Read the following quote from the OP and you’ll see what I mean:

"Only Judeo based faiths such as christianity, catholicism, mormonism, and buddhism fall into the right hand path. Wicca and witchcraft and also Satanism and Santeria are left hand path religions. As for black magic practicioners, they don’t fit anywhere on that spectrum because they are neither of the good right hand path nor of the left hand path which includes religions that are outside of cultural norms, mainly polytheistic religions. The left hand path is symbolic of turning your hand away from the christian God, turning away from what is considered right by christians towards the left.

Those black magic practicioners are just a bunch of atheists who study magic which I find sorta disrespecting. You cannot be a atheist and believe in magic at the same time. And there is no such thing as white or black magic, there is only grey. Black magic is just a concept invented by movies and television. I’m not sure if these black magics are using the term to feel big and powerful or using it to make their evil spells look not-so-bad."
-End quote

I had to laugh at the pure ignorance of that person’s statement. Wicca is NOT LHP it is strictly RHP. Buddhism is also NOT a judeo based religion. They said black magicians (or practicioners as they call it) do not fit in either spectrum and that left hand is not a path, it is a symbolic reference to those who have chosen religions other than judeo based. Where did they get this false information from? LHP really has nothing to do with religion at all.

They basically said, we black magicians are just a bunch of atheists and how can they believe in magick if they are atheist. I love how the OP seems to think that atheism is the dismissal of everything unseen. The definition of an atheist is someone who dismisses the belief in a supreme deity, that there is no one god or deity who reigns supreme over all, it has nothing to do with magick. I also found it funny that they think Satanism and Santeria fall into the same magickal grouping as wiccans and pagans.

This person has been educating themselves from all the wrong sources. They also claim that they are a follower of the LHP that also identify as a theistic Luciferian but they believe Lucifer is not real neither from the christian perspective as being the devil or as an actual entity that can be summoned, merely a concept. I thought theistic Luciferians were those who believe that Lucifer is an actual being, whether they believe in the bible literally or believe he is an entity separate from christianity. Isn’t that what theism is? The belief in god as surpreme deity as those who interpret the bible as being literal, including all of the angels and people within that book? They also claimed that demons do not exist. So if they follow the LHP and believe demons are not real, would they not instead fall under some type of atheistic Satanism? There are forms of Satanism that are merely a way of life, seeing oneself as god and defying social norms without the actual belief in anything godlike, demonic, or magickal at all.

[quote=“RavensAscent, post:1, topic:5488”]They basically said, we black magicians are just a bunch of atheists and how can they believe in magick if they are atheist. I love how the OP seems to think that atheism is the dismissal of everything unseen. The definition of an atheist is someone who dismisses the belief in a supreme deity, that there is no one god or deity who reigns supreme over all, it has nothing to do with magick. I also found it funny that they think Satanism and Santeria fall into the same magickal grouping as wiccans and pagans.

This person has been educating themselves from all the wrong sources. They also claim that they are a follower of the LHP that also identify as a theistic Luciferian but they believe Lucifer is not real neither from the christian perspective as being the devil or as an actual entity that can be summoned, merely a concept. I thought theistic Luciferians were those who believe that Lucifer is an actual being, whether they believe in the bible literally or believe he is an entity separate from christianity. Isn’t that what theism is? The belief in god as surpreme deity as those who interpret the bible as being literal, including all of the angels and people within that book? They also claimed that demons do not exist. So if they follow the LHP and believe demons are not real, would they not instead fall under some type of atheistic Satanism? There are forms of Satanism that are merely a way of life, seeing oneself as god and defying social norms without the actual belief in anything godlike, demonic, or magickal at all.[/quote]

Behold, they have mastered the art of making logic fucking implode on itself >__>… again…

i agree you cant be an atheist and practice magic.because deep occultism is very spiritual.

I agree about the topic of this thread, but respectfully disagree about the definitions of the the different branches of the “left hand path” and the “right hand path”, because my own experiences pretty much covers them all. And that is by the same entities and spirits, using our definitions of their actions for different purposes and circumstances. Does that make them “white”, “black” or “grey”? Or does that make it a “left hand path” or “right hand path” by our generalized descriptions?

When spirits or entities makes their choices by their emotions - both positive and negative - they break the rules of our “simplified” definitions of magic, and doesn’t fit in either branch. They just cover it all. I’m not saying I’m right, but that is how I see it.

The allusion to ‘black’ magic is an allusion to the primeval metaphysical universal battle cold absorption by the cold of space (blackness) of energy. This is where the battle of good and evil comes from essentially. Dont knock it… the darkness of space is black and is the preliminary idea of ‘evil’ or the negative.

Nothing can be created or destroyed — NO but it can be ABSORPED, and where you have a infinite amount of cold and a finite amount of energy, the universe has to keep moving that energy. it does this in the form of photons predominantly, all matter serves the purpose of either storing and/or moving energy PERIOD.

Of course your consciousness is photonic, and as such due to the fact that we are by products of universal processes (no god) as above so below. Deeming that your consciousness has an enemy in a way. this is what black magic refers to - the destruction by absorption of energy. This is the abyss (darkness of space and cold etc etc.)

‘Black’ magic is as close probably as you could get to describe the negative and white to the positive (ie light).

J

Well everyone has their own definition of white and black magick, left hand and right hand paths based on their experiences, what beliefs they hold, and several other factors. That’s why not every author and not every magician agrees upon the same thing. That’s also why there are so many different forms of Satanism, I have spoken to many Satanists, several of which claim to all follow the same system, yet each person has such varied and individual views of what that system entails or what followers of that system believe, however in some way they all manage to have at least one view in common which is what lead them to identify what that particular path.

I just don’t see how the OP could believe wicca is of the left hand path or that it falls into the same type of occult category as the darker paths. Everyone is free to customize his or her beliefs, but how can the OP of that quote call themselves theistic if they do not believe that the entity their path is centered around, even exists at all? I always thought theism was just the opposite of atheism, the belief in and/or worship of a divine godlike figure whether or not you choose to follow that god. The statement in general was just very confusing and conflicting.

If you misinterpreted my post, The quoted statement was not my opinion, it was a direct quote that was posted by someone else on another forum. I was trying to understand where they were getting their information from. Timothy does a video in which he talks about supernatural atheism, a term that he coined in which, the person is atheist by having no belief in any supreme gods, one who does not interpret any religious books or characters within to be literal but they do however believe in the existance of the supernatural, which would mean that person is an atheist by definition but when referring to the supernatural they are open to the idea that there are unseen forces in this world that cannot be explained but do in fact exist, such as magick.

So it may be a hard concept to accept, but one can be atheist and still believe in magick as the definition of atheism has nothing to do with magick or the supernatural, it refers strictly to religion. It just depends on how that person views magick. Magick can still be accomplished thru will and the power of thoughts and words, even by someone who may also believe that demons are not real either.

[quote=“RavensAscent, post:6, topic:5488”]Well everyone has their own definition of white and black magick, left hand and right hand paths based on their experiences, what beliefs they hold, and several other factors. That’s why not every author and not every magician agrees upon the same thing. That’s also why there are so many different forms of Satanism, I have spoken to many Satanists, several of which claim to all follow the same system, yet each person has such varied and individual views of what that system entails or what followers of that system believe, however in some way they all manage to have at least one view in common which is what lead them to identify what that particular path.

I just don’t see how the OP could believe wicca is of the left hand path or that it falls into the same type of occult category as the darker paths. Everyone is free to customize his or her beliefs, but how can the OP of that quote call themselves theistic if they do not believe that the entity their path is centered around, even exists at all? I always thought theism was just the opposite of atheism, the belief in and/or worship of a divine godlike figure whether or not you choose to follow that god. The statement in general was just very confusing and conflicting.

If you misinterpreted my post, The quoted statement was not my opinion, it was a direct quote that was posted by someone else on another forum. I was trying to understand where they were getting their information from. Timothy does a video in which he talks about supernatural atheism, a term that he coined in which, the person is atheist by having no belief in any supreme gods, one who does not interpret any religious books or characters within to be literal but they do however believe in the existance of the supernatural, which would mean that person is an atheist by definition but when referring to the supernatural they are open to the idea that there are unseen forces in this world that cannot be explained but do in fact exist, such as magick.

So it may be a hard concept to accept, but one can be atheist and still believe in magick as the definition of atheism has nothing to do with magick or the supernatural, it refers strictly to religion. It just depends on how that person views magick. Magick can still be accomplished thru will and the power of thoughts and words, even by someone who may also believe that demons are not real either.[/quote]

I coined the phrase ‘Metaphysical Atheism’.

J

there is different views of what black magic is.from what ive read and studied,evocation of spirits is not black magic.its abramelin magic or called rajo magic. Arthur edward waite in his book The book of ceramonial magic started calling rajo magic black magic.just because he used the word demon and the legend of king solomon. true black magic is called black witchcrafts,black witchcrafts originated in africa and is operated through the combination of juju and voodoo occultism,but today its being practiced all over the world.black magicians practice killing plants by saying negative things and using energies.the ascended masters of black magic were the wizard of Ngoni and Chauta from the tribe of ngoni.black witchcrafts are not writen in books because it takes positive energies to write.you dont have to read or write to practice black witchcrafts.

Thank you Darrin for your input.

Yes, there are different views on everything occult related which is why I think everyone also customizes his or her path in whatever way they see fit. That can lead to confusion. I was mainly taken back by the OP’s views on “theistic” as those two terms theism and atheism, are definitions in the dictionary that are not changeable. So it was weird seeing them state there were a theist but then later state they don’t believe in anything godlike at all.

[quote=“succupedia, post:4, topic:5488”]I agree about the topic of this thread, but respectfully disagree about the definitions of the the different branches of the “left hand path” and the “right hand path”, because my own experiences pretty much covers them all. And that is by the same entities and spirits, using our definitions of their actions for different purposes and circumstances. Does that make them “white”, “black” or “grey”? Or does that make it a “left hand path” or “right hand path” by our generalized descriptions?

When spirits or entities makes their choices by their emotions - both positive and negative - they break the rules of our “simplified” definitions of magic, and doesn’t fit in either branch. They just cover it all. I’m not saying I’m right, but that is how I see it.[/quote]

If I hear you correctly, and I believe I do, you’re saying they’re the forces of nature, and thus they are what they are; therefore they could care not what permutation (left, right, grey, black, red, brown), mankind utilizes to idolize them.

It’s funny, since I’ve been working both Golden Dawn based tradition, juxtaposed with EA’s methodology now for a few years, I find that the spirits could care less what tradition of antiquity I use to call them.

Presupposing that you have unlocked your visualization skills, trained yourself to hear, see, and watch for the signs; the entities will reciprocate.

IMO there is something to be learned from every tradition, as magick is a personal journey, choose what works for you, and develop your own style.

The power is within, it always has been, just unlock it.

Kofi Manu witchcraft is black magic. Kofi Manu was a famous dark black magician in Ghana.he was feared and cosidered to be extremly dangerous. he is an ascended master and spirit now called ARAHATHA,which is a dark spirit that feeds on blood and controls all forms of black magick.

[quote=“Gnosis, post:10, topic:5488”]If I hear you correctly, and I believe I do, you’re saying they’re the forces of nature, and thus they are what they are; therefore they could care not what permutation (left, right, grey, black, red, brown), mankind utilizes to idolize them.

It’s funny, since I’ve been working both Golden Dawn based tradition, juxtaposed with EA’s methodology now for a few years, I find that the spirits could care less what tradition of antiquity I use to call them.[/quote]

You read me correctly, and that is what I meant. My experiences and my interpretations of all the branches of magic, they basically covered most of these, based on circumstances and the ongoing situation. And as such, there is no reason for me to limit them by different branches and niches, because that will limit them in their actions, aswell as me in my spiritual development.

IMO there is something to be learned from every tradition, as magick is a personal journey, choose what works for you, and develop your own style.

I agree about that. And the spirits and entities are extremely willing to encourage new ways of performing magic, and to try different approaches, even if there is other working methods out there.

There is something to be learned from every tradition, I agree with that.

Those who feel you should stick with only one path, cannot stand people like myself. I have been studying the occult since I was a child and have found some methods work, some don’t. I absolutely loved some parts of particular paths and either hated or wasn’t interested in what the rest of that path entailed. So I have always been ecclectic, mixing a bit of everything that works for me. I don’t see it as a bad thing, I see it as a way to expand my knowledge and my abilities. I am still learning new things and I will most likely still be learning new things when I am old as the occult is such a massive area of study I don’t think anyone could learn everything in just a few years, and people are constantly discovering new methods and spells so there is always something new.

I have met a few people in my life who were so strict about sticking to one path only, they were literally angered and apalled when others like myself mention being ecclectic. Some do see this as disrespectful though I’m not sure why. It’s not a bad thing to seek out new methods and customize as you see fit. Why would I limit myself to just one system.

If they told you that in the English language, which is almost entirely comprised of loanwords by now and has also undergone several vowel and consonant chain-shifts, the lulz are on them. :wink:

I only hold “purity” as a value in certain situations but the rest? Bring it!

Every drawer thinking is bad from my point of view. And as bardon said ‘there are no good angels or bad demons’ Colours and form they get from us. And thats with everything there is. Just to make it somewhat understandable to the human mind.

Koettings Works of Darkness is the most darkest black magic book.i have to say koetting is the best. thats why im looking for another copy of works of darkness

I love WOD. I am going thru that book right now. I am practicing the dark sight exercises because I’m still not fully advance at seeing or hearing demons, sometimes I get images that fade out after a minute or so, but last night I saw a dragon in my mirror, clear shape, color, and detail.

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Gaining the dark sight is chapter 8.yes i know what you mean i cant,charge,scry and open the sigil.when i start the bi lateral focus sometimes while staring at the sigil it gets darker like the lights are being dimmed and ill see a red or blueish color on the sigil paper for a few seconds.but i dont eves see the lines of the sigil lifting off the paper and becoming 3d.just wait till you get to chapter 12 in WoD it turns into a nightmare and koetting talks of blood and human sacrafice.

Unholy shit- 35+years as a christian priest theologian and I missed buddhism class! wtf!
i wish buddhism would quit getting shit on. The actual basic buddhism, not the crap accreted onto it; in my opinion if quite foundationally constructive to a magickal LHP and RHP aka both hand path life. Hell forbid one become a Master of Balance- ohellno- tear the right wing of that plane and left turn your way to limiless power- thats Physics!!! wtf. Whatever we do, lets trash the inexscapable truth the all born on this planet are subject to dis-satisfaction, displeasurement or suffering; and by all means, ignore the reality that to escape the forces of suffering surrounding us like the air we breathe by
Excercizing our Inherant Divine Capacity to , relying onlly upon ourselves and our actions and responsibility perform the Work of
Right View
’’ Intention
" Speech
" Action
" livelihood
’" effort
" mindfullness
" concentration

no these are completely erroneous techniques of self enslavement. sheesh
How the hell is it I cannot open a black as hell magicakl grimoire and be completely tsunamied by nothing less than the total explanation of how to marry those principles up to not just endure what the physics of the mindless universe is when we come squeeling into its slop of hell and glory; but to realize our Actual Divinity and Build our own kingdoms of Flame ?
Sorry, when anybody slams buddhism and being opposed to the sacrosanct LHP (which has all the power in and of itself of a battery cut in half and having the negative side only being used) i know I am looking at the words of a very high minded but barely studied and self actualised person who has neither studied or tested and tried its core principles- which sans well meaning but often fanatically expended Accretions; can do more to create for them a foundation to achieve severely powerful Magick than all the “Hail Satans” could ever accomplish.
Far be it for me to once again state that buddhism does not lay a Path for a Person to “Become A living God” for it accepts the Sentient being as Already being just that, but that after death, the God may remain a God- or through birth- Ascend to a Higher Station- where acting upon the Powers of the Godhood can be actively worked upon. no longer in the “Pure Science” method- but in the "Applied Science " Method. [lets see who knows what the hell i just said.]
OK, off my soapbox. all is well in zion, ye zion prospereth!

FDM

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/8foldpath.htm


[quote="RavensAscent, post:1, topic:5488"]I read this post on another site and I had to laugh. Read the following quote from the OP and you'll see what I mean:

"Only Judeo based faiths such as christianity, catholicism, mormonism, and buddhism fall into the right hand path. Wicca and witchcraft and also Satanism and Santeria are left hand path religions. As for black magic practicioners, they don't fit anywhere on that spectrum because they are neither of the good right hand path nor of the left hand path which includes religions that are outside of cultural norms, mainly polytheistic religions. The left hand path is symbolic of turning your hand away from the christian God, turning away from what is considered right by christians towards the left.

Those black magic practicioners are just a bunch of atheists who study magic which I find sorta disrespecting. You cannot be a atheist and believe in magic at the same time. And there is no such thing as white or black magic, there is only grey. Black magic is just a concept invented by movies and television. I'm not sure if these black magics are using the term to feel big and powerful or using it to make their evil spells look not-so-bad." 
-End quote

I had to laugh at the pure ignorance of that person's statement. Wicca is NOT LHP it is strictly RHP. Buddhism is also NOT a judeo based religion. They said black magicians (or practicioners as they call it) do not fit in either spectrum and that left hand is not a path, it is a symbolic reference to those who have chosen religions other than judeo based. Where did they get this false information from? LHP really has nothing to do with religion at all.

They basically said, we black magicians are just a bunch of atheists and how can they believe in magick if they are atheist. I love how the OP seems to think that atheism is the dismissal of everything unseen. The definition of an atheist is someone who dismisses the belief in a supreme deity, that there is no one god or deity who reigns supreme over all, it has nothing to do with magick. I also found it funny that they think Satanism and Santeria fall into the same magickal grouping as wiccans and pagans. 

This person has been educating themselves from all the wrong sources. They also claim that they are a follower of the LHP that also identify as a theistic Luciferian but they believe Lucifer is not real neither from the christian perspective as being the devil or as an actual entity that can be summoned, merely a concept. I thought theistic Luciferians were those who believe that Lucifer is an actual being, whether they believe in the bible literally or believe he is an entity separate from christianity. Isn't that what theism is? The belief in god as surpreme deity as those who interpret the bible as being literal, including all of the angels and people within that book? They also claimed that demons do not exist. So if they follow the LHP and believe demons are not real, would they not instead fall under some type of atheistic Satanism? There are forms of Satanism that are merely a way of life, seeing oneself as god and defying social norms without the actual belief in anything godlike, demonic, or magickal at all.[/quote]

Frater, I agree that Buddhism could fall under both left and right hand. I recently learned that there is a dark side of Buddhism that some choose to incorporate into their practices. I don’t think the person that made those statements was being intentionally disrespectful towards Buddhism, just uneducated, as they claimed that Buddhism fell into the spectrum of Judeo based faiths. That must be what you’re referring to because I re-read my original post and I didn’t say anything disrespectful towards Buddhism, I only stated that it’s not Judeo based.