How do you know what level of a mage you are

hey everyone I was wondering how can you tell what level you are at because some people say you need to be a novice, expert, adept, ect to summon this demon.


@neondemon178 Okay. Firstly, all you need to be to summon Demons is what I term a raw beginner. Let’s get that out of the way first.


Secondly, I think that most people have too low a bar for what would be considered an adept or Master. Honestly, if you look at the ranking, degrees, levels etc. of any group which has actually managed to achieve Apotheosis. Whether that be the 72 Levels of Mo Pai, or the levels of Tibetan Highest Yoga Tantra pretty much anyone you meet is going to be considered either completely incompetent or a beginner. Those are the standards I hold by. Yes, that means I fit into the “complete beginner” category. Pretty sure, by Mo Pai standards I’d be at most the equivalent of what they consider a Level 2 (on an immensely self-flattering estimate) along with almost every single other person on this Forum. It’s about not losing yourself to ego when you really haven’t come that far. Always set the bar as high as you can. It’s always better to consider yourself an eternal beginner than to mistakenly assume Mastery. When you have truly Become a Living God in the truest sense of the term. Then, and only then should you call yourself a Master.


It should also be noted that the degrees of initiation and all that used within a specific Order is almost always going to be specific to that Path. You could draw up equivalencies and try to see the general competency of someone at a certain rank in order to get a certain sense of where you are at, but magickal systems are different and every system has their own levels of progression, so that is something to keep in mind.


Well said.


@Serpent Thank you.


thank you

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so who in BALG is qualified to teach? If we are all beginners is it not a case of “the blind leading the blind”?


I think “levels” are just for “order” and from an individual perspective, it should not exists. Don’t try to put boundaries on what you are doing. Magik is magik at the end of the day. It has no limits.


I rather thought the question related to conflation between magick and magical role playing games. Titles and hierarchies aren’t important unless you are part of a group or want to impress someone who actually doesn’t deserve to be impressed.

I recall someone recently asking what titles were bestowed upon BALG members by entities and thinking why does this matter? The entity has to call you something and if you compare it to Dilbert and Dogbert’s Management Handbook - Employee has a nicer ring to it than Dolt.

Unless you join a specific order with a structure then there isn’t a hierarchy, and no-one here to my knowledge is paid for their time, resources or services. Any courses that you may see are purely done and organised by members and aren’t to my knowledge designed to gain badges and epaulets to impress others - they are designed for self enlightenment and the cross pollination of ideas and the sharing of resources.



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Good question. I think some black magicians is taking too much responsibilities in taking others under their wings, without being good at teaching. It’s not about lack of experience, per se, but more a lack of teaching regarding methods, writing skills, comprehension and basically being good at explaining things in a way that most people understand.

You could be the most powerful magician there is, but if you can’t explain things as properly and thorough as possible, then maybe you shouldn’t teach.


I would think there are three levels to any system, as you need to understand The three alchemy operators and assimilate them, element, planet and zodiac operations, principle, law and agency. Scale of three.
I’m trying to motivate myself to do daily magic, mundane stuff and get to be an adept (through working beginner to adept material) by November.

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I agree that levels and hierarchies are ridiculous notions that one should discard immediately.

There are no levels, as you are not gaining abilities which you lack. Rather, you are unlocking the infinite potential you already have. You do not get new spells, as you would in a video game, but instead you remove the mental blockades you have (e.g. it’s impossible to do X), and reprogram yourself from the trash you’ve been fed your entire life (material world is the only one that exists, spirits do not exist, you cannot do X, mundane life is the only thing that matters, OR ALTERNATIVELY, there is a God who will send you to hell if you disobey him, etc etc).

So if we are to use the word “level” for the sake of simplicity, I would say that you would be a “high level / ranking mage” if you are capable of manifesting even the most far out things that most occultists would deem impossible.

Think about it, if magic was about gaining new spells, and not unlocking hidden unlimited potential, how come even your average Joe down the street will report of synchronicity / “accidental manifestations” (although he would not call them such? How come even the most clueless person about magic is capable of gazing at the demonic sigil and stating their will, only to have it manifested (if they’re not obsessing over the result, that is).

We all have a long way to go, I would say, myself being no exception. We have a lot of mental blockades, but we will get rid of them, and finally be able to act as gods.


I’m thinking about studying the dictionary, change my vocabulary, say the shortest amount of words possible, say in ritual least amount of words possible but charging the words.


There is a method where you translate your will into a demonic language or a barbarous tongue which is a lot shorter, and can use it as a chant to manifest something or generate a lot of power.

Alash tad al-ash tal ashtu being an example. Though you could make something that’s even shorter, and not a tongue twister like that one.

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I do a mix of the 2 when making sigil with pahlavi script, results have been pretty potent as i learn better “targeting” for lack of a better term lol
Precise magick tends to lead to Precise manifestation is what i am seein. Being general and vague are the cause of most of my past headaches with rituals :expressionless:

Part of why i made that monster of a post awhile back about precision of intent. So others may learn from the rituals that blew up in my face lol.

Damn the poetic lines and be accurate and precise. :laughing:


Regarding “leveling”, I’ve never used any kind of levels to my experiences and what I’ve learned over the years. On the other hand, I have shared my experiences with in-depth description in lengthy articles and posts, as well as giving tips and advice to others within the same or similar path as I’m in. Does that make me a “teacher”? Does that make me a high level black magician? No, it doesn’t. I’m just glad if my experiences help others in one way or the other.


I used to read dictionaries and encyclopaedia when I was a foal - I was a strange child…

You will become like the Spartans - laconic.

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Personally, I only see Three levels

Novice meaning you read spells off books and are currently grinding books to learn as much as possible still lots of questions.

Adept meaning you create your own spells and read books on different magickal currents and magickal styles to create your own spells and you’re quite capable to help your self and others.

Expert meaning the same thing as an adept however much more advanced at this point you might even write your own books!

Wizard meaning (you woke af) lol

that’s my definition personally