HARD question:

and this might get me into hot water around here, but i’m going to ask it anyway.

is BALG really just an upgraded JOS?

i’ve had many conversations with very well-respected occultists about this board and it seems that few if any of the thought leaders in metaphysics have any respect whatsoever for this board or for erik.

whether it’s due to his marketing or personality, i have no idea. but he rubs people the wrong way in a very similar way to maxine dietrich’s JOS position in the lhp a decade ago. when erik was arrested a while ago, i was frankly turned off by the amount of schadenfreude in the occultnik circles, but it really makes you think when you see how steadily mages have been antagonistic toward this board.

BALG also skews rather newbie-friendly. i noticed a long time ago that adepts and those coming into power tend to pack up and leave BALG as soon as they get their magicks rocking. a couple have confessed to me they didn’t feel welcome here as soon as they came into real spirit contact and one swore to me that this board is blind leading the blind, which frankly surprised me.

thoughts?

I think blind leading the blind is rather harsh, considering that there some very powerful mages here. Yes we are newbie friendly, but I’d consider that a good thing.
I started out on joy of Satan and taught myself using the meditations and advice there. Personally I’d say joy of Satan contains mainly the basics, while we have both basics and moreadvanced stuff.
As far as the best among us packing up and leaving goes, I think it’s less the forum and more the fact that as we learn more and become powerful, we rely less upon others and therefore have I tenancy to visit the forum less. Which is something I’ve experienced myself.
I can see why people might dislike Eric, he is a powerful mage but primarily a businessman. Personally I respect him for it, but no doubt some hold his success against him.
Got a feeling this could prove to be an interesting thread

One thing to note is how little Eric visits his own forum though. You’d have thought a weekly visit wouldn’t be out the way
just as a side note, does s.ben.qayin ever visit the forum? He certainly knows his theory, and I mean no offence to the guy when I say this, but he always came across more like a carnival fortune teller than a powerful sorcerer.

Why would you think BALG is like JoS? I don’t see EA posting a bunch of paranoid holocaust denying ideology… EA is respectful, and JoS is not… But that’s just my personal opinion.

While I agree that sometimes people may ramble or express strong viewpoints against certain religious leanings, there still is a spirit of learning and respect, as opposed to blind hate, which seems to be more the tone of JoS regarding how they speak of the abrahamic faiths… EA and BALG seem more about free will and personal development, than just waging war on the abrahamic faiths.

I have heard people in other places try to discredit EA because of some past legal things he went through…but so what? His methods work… He is human and has human consequences sometimes for his actions. Everyone has things they struggle with and overcome, and yet I don’t think it detracts from his magickal edge.

You seem to be asking what others are thinking perhaps in some circles…but what it really comes down to is you and what you believe. Have you gained anything by being here? Have the teachings and chances to study and learn enhanced your life and practice in any way? Look at the results… Don’t worry so much about what people think.

I personally think other forums and groups criticise EA because he makes his own rules… He shatters the illusion that magickal learning can be kept in the hands of a few…and so he is maligned by those who resent him for doing what they lack the backbone and skill to do themselves. It’s easy being an armchair magician or theologian…yet BALG has managed to evolve and adapt to new things, while other groups just like to complain and criticise.

You mentioned BALG being newbie friendly…and that isn’t a bad thing. Everyone was a newbie at one point. Some people stay, some move on. Others forget their roots and try to pretend they never had help getting where they are…

BALG is a place welcoming anyone who sincerely wants to learn…you get out what you put in… Every group or forum has it’s share of drama, BALG included…but overall I have experienced so many knowledgeable and skilled people willing to share ideas, more than any other forum I have been on… Not any one place has all the answers… But BALG seems to be a good place for many… Take the best and leave the rest, if you will… The bottom line is what each magician is seeking and willing to learn, rather than be too concerned by the opinions of naysayers.

While I have no comment, I know that it is hard to ask such a question to its own community.

So I applaud you for doing so.

As for JoS all what they teach on their Website is based on other sources like Franz Bardon, basicly their Meditation could be taken in a ‘‘New Age Energy 101’’ Book, Also in the JoS Forum, there is no place to argue, to debate and Try to find your own Personal truth, you must either follow Blindly what the JoS Leader say or not be a JoS Member, The JoS is completely Different from BALG

BALG is by Far the Most Open-Minded, Friendly Forum about Magick i see on the Internet, People rant a lot about E.A, neverless, His Magic Work , when i started applying the Method outlined by E.A I started to get real and constant Result in my Magick, Before that i have some result there by there but nothing consistent.

In my own Opinion, BALG is completely Different from JoS

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It’s quite easy to discuss other magicians in other forums, right? We might like or dislike some magicians in here, for the reason of differences in opinions, cultures, experiences and magical paths. And that’s totally fine, as long as we respect each other.

i've had many conversations with very well-respected occultists about this board and it seems that few if any of the thought leaders in metaphysics have any respect whatsoever for this board or for erik.

Many of these, so called, “metaphysics occultists” might be quite experienced but I have yet read any relevant information about their knowledges or thesis of energies and specifically spirit energy and how it interact with us. It’s rarely spoken of, even if some of us interact with these kind of energies on a daily basis. Why is that? Is it because a lot of them doesn’t stick to one path, but tries many paths without any selfreflection to their experiences? I think that’s quite a shame to not using that kind of experiences to pass on to others.

What if BALG had ignored the uninitiated magician and started from the top, ignoring these people with a genuine interest of magic? Would that be the right way to go? I find it contradictive, since all of us been beginners in whatever path we’re on.

We always learn from experience, and it’s always on an individual perspective. There is very few resemblances, but much more differences. How we approach eachother when we pass these experiences to one another, could sometimes be with less reflection than needed. But we shouldn’t throw glass in a glasshouse, because we don’t just brake the target. We hurt ourselves, too.

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JoS is just the spiritual satanism path, BALG is for everyone who wants to learn magick. It docent matter who you are. E.A Koetting releases some things for free and some for money, I understand some things have to cost money because he can’t just do all the courses for free and he uses the money to provide us good quality. The only thing I don’t like about BALG is that the physical copies are not sold as PDFs too, when they run out of physical copies then they are just sold out.
I also like that BALG is beginner friendly, it can be a good place to start to learn magick.
Also BALG is open source so anyone that has something to share can work with E.A to get the information out into the world. I heard him say that if someone can do things better then he will be happy to work with them to provide better information :slight_smile:

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Firstly, this board is NOT the same thing as Erik’s teachings nor is it all his work, or even a cult focused primarily ON his work – it’s a group endeavour, and the product of everyone who posts or participates at all.

I find the jumbling up of both concepts in your OP frankly a bit annoying - which I’m sure isn’t intended, but I’m just being honest :slight_smile: - that said, if the same people are against BOTH the concept of teaching magick like any other skill via marketing and open access, AND they hate this forum because it supports that, and is open and friendly to newbies - then fuck 'em, I’ll gladly take the hit, both as a member & LHP magician, and also a volunteer mod trying to keep elitism and bullshit off the boards.

I’ve had many discussions with members who’ve had breakthroughs on this forum as a result of the help they got from different members here (this forum fosters a diverse approach and no one school of thought or approach is considered the ONLY one), and others from people who have hired E.A. or another member of the business and had great results, but since I’m not going to name and screen-grab all those individuals, that leaves it on the same vague footing as yours, being “many” people.

I’ve also – tellingly – never once heard a single complaint about E.A.'s work nor that of anyone currently on his team, but I can’t prove that, either, so really this is just two people’s own versions of hearsay.

May I suggest that if you want to speak for thought-leaders in metaphysics, you either name them, link to their criticisms, or have them speak for themselves?

Maybe, better yet, get them to contact E.A. to debate with him publicly instead of whingeing to anyone who’ll listen, an offer he made ages ago which afaik is still standing, and yet which only ONE person so far has had the integrity to take up?

whether it's due to his marketing or personality, i have no idea. but he rubs people the wrong way in a very similar way to maxine dietrich's JOS position in the lhp a decade ago. when erik was arrested a while ago, i was frankly turned off by the amount of schadenfreude in the occultnik circles, but it really makes you think when you see how steadily mages have been antagonistic toward this board.

Clarity, please – this board, OR the work and personality of E.A. Koetting, or both?

Also, those mages – how many of them are trying to make a living out of magick? Do you really expect competing business interests, people for whom their work places the bread on their tables, to speak in glowing terms of a competitor?

BALG also skews rather newbie-friendly.

BALG the business, afaik, that’s intentionally so – offering magickal teachings to people for whom they’d otherwise be out of reach because of geographic location, lack of contacts, or culture of their home town that means they’d never get to meet a real magician. I’ve never discussed the business model with Timothy, but that’s what I’m taking from what I’ve read and seen.

BALG the forum, hell yes it’s newbie-friendly – I did request that Timothy start a section for Member Journals to give more experienced people a place to post long-term threads detailing their work and findings (it would also obviously be open to newbies) but he decided he didn’t want to make any new additions to the forum right now, as it may be due an upgrade soon.

Really, though, I don’t see the issue – no-one is prevented from posting highly-advanced material, just because newer members on this forum are also posting their questions.

i noticed a long time ago that adepts and those coming into power tend to pack up and leave BALG as soon as they get their magicks rocking.

Yes, this is a forum people come to to learn magick… that some then leave once they feel proficient is no real big deal, it wouldn’t seem bizarre on a language forum (hosted by a company selling language courses) and if you take magick as a skill that can be taught, for a fee, that becomes obvious.

If you take a forum like StudioArcanis which is the opposite to newbie-friendly, it’s mainly an “old guard” (and that’s evidently how they like it, so that’s fair enough) and completely different to this one in most ways.

I’ve always believed and gone out of my way to support the idea of diversity, in terms of different forums serving different groups - this IMO is healthy and correct, no one forum can serve the needs of literally every person who happens to come across it and join. That’s JMO and not a “moderator statement” or anything like that, but it’s something I feel strongly about.

Forums aren’t a closed group in a small town, where people leaving means the group withers away - they’re open to the entire internet and people come and go as they choose – there’s no agenda behind the actions of disparate individuals, and it’s natural that some people will move on once they’ve learned what they came here for.

a couple have confessed to me they didn't feel welcome here as soon as they came into real spirit contact

Seriously? Most of the time any post on here where people post about a genuine spirit contact will get likes, comments, questions… more than anything, I’ve heard people complaining on-list and off that they get too overwhelmed with questions once they start posting about their ability.

It’s on them (IMO) to be able to say “sorry, I can’t help you, I don’t have time” but it’s what I’ve heard most often.

and one swore to me that this board is blind leading the blind, which frankly surprised me.

No-one’s leading anyone on here – and maybe that’s the issue.

That this forum is NOT a graded heirarchy, so people who get experience don’t suddenly get somehow “promoted” in a way that flatters their egos?

If someone truly believes they have a key to magick that “the blind” on here just aren’t seeing, why not start a thread about that? (Or a site, or a forum, or a business?)

Could it not just be the classic case that people get their first true rush of knowledge, power and experience, start feeling their oats a bit, and decide that everyone else and everything else is beneath them, and that they could do better?

Because that’s just human nature and it happens in almost every area of human endeavour at some stage, which is why college-leavers habitually think they know better than everyone else on the planet, including politicians and their own parents!

thoughts?

If someone’s seriously unhappy with a specific thing about the board and feels that it breaches rules or is somehow out of line, take it to a moderator or Timothy – there’s an appeals procedure clearly outlined in Official Announcements.

For anything less serious, if for example you think the forum is “the blind leading the blind” then start being a leader yourself – share your methods and results, open up about your techniques, discoveries, UPG, big-ass realisations – instead of sitting back with a sneer expecting someone else to do the heavy lifting for you.

Obviously no community made of imperfect people will ever BE perfect, we all rub up against people and you can’t like everyone you meet online, but this forum is for discussing magick, and not meant to be all things, to all people. No forum can be, nor should it try.

That’s my 2¢ anyway, for whatever it’s worth.

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