Goetia and subconscious programming

Hey what’s up? I haven’t posted here in ages, but I have a topic worth discussing. So here we go.

After learning how to evoke spirits and seeing an intelligence you can interact with leads a person to a feeling that it is something outside of themselves. That is true for the most part. However when it comes to the goetia, there is something that makes me want to re-evaluate my perspective.

So the story goes, that king Solomon built his temple with the help of demons and cast them into a brass vessel, after the temple was built and these unseen forces were bounded up in a brass vessel and thrown into the bottom of the lake. That’s my butchered version of the allegory.

So Crowley states in his version that the 72 demons of the goetia are portions of the brain. So with all the talk of NLP, self-hypnosis, autogenic training, binuaral beats and subliminal mp3s, etc. there are ways to communicate with your subconscious.

Honestly, most people on this forum need to take note of subconscious programming. Learning brainwave states and how to interact in that realm if consciousness, cuts the bullshit of petitioning a random demon to pay your bills for you. So learning how to control the elements before you bother a random demon makes the experience more worthwhile. Besides, if you can gain respect of outside influences, you might be exposed to unseen forces. Just saying.

So anyone who actually tries to evoke a spirit from the goetia will report something in the room with them. Now there are some who say that it’s all in your head, but you don’t know how big your head is (duquette)

Now, we have a manual that shows you how to evoke unseen forces to build a temple. My question is how do you decipher the codex, if the goetia is a manual to over-ride the subconscious mind. Where is the rest of the manual?

Well, I never figured it out. But I have a couple of working ideas. As of now I have 72 sigils and an account of an allegory that hints at subconscious programming. At this point I pulled out my college books and tried to match up everything. I don’t have a working manual, yet.

I’m not inclined to post my work, just yet. Not that I have something to hide, but most internet surfers are lazy and take truth at face value. So I don’t want to throw up a how to and it’s more of a slap in the face to the authors who wrote about the goetia.

However, my method is that I drew out the portions of the brain in relation to heirachy of the goetia. Each portion of the brain is assigned a demon. Kings to dukes. Map it out, do the work. Then, I redrew each sigil to fit the model.

Has anyone done this? Or am I way off track? Not sure, but I took the step into that dark road. I don’t mind posting my work, I just don’t want my way of doing things overshadow what the book was meant for, whatever the true nature may be. So if anyone has their point of view on this topic, I would love to hear it.


Subconscious impulses make up part of the work, hence the unique individuality in (most) practices, occultist by occultist.

They are not the entire phenomenon. Spirits are more than “subconscious programming”, they are intelligences which possess non-physical forms, which our subconscious often plays a major role in interpreting the energy and consciousness of.

I would argue that practices that hold evolution as a goal, ascension in plain talk, are also, by association, designed to remove the subconscious filters to greater and greater magnitudes. When the subconscious is “off”, “truth” is experienced.

Idk if I can jive with that, I’m having trouble seeing how that works out. So if I may… I would like to explain my perception and maybe we can figure something out we are not aware of.

To me western hermetics speak in allegories, like a story within a story. Modern occultism has moved to a more classroom explaination. Like reading a recipe. So we do away with reading between the lines and go for the black and white print in books. Take E.A. For example, he wanted to make sense of these teachings and sought out the right channels to do so. Now he publishes books in a way that isn’t in the form of grudging alchemist of the old.

In this case I’m trying to decipher an occult manual in the context of an older allegory, to my modern understanding of the world.

So in the spirit of subconscious impulse. That is the work of the shadow, qlippothic energies coming from the depths of ones psyche. To me, Crowley, is trying to say there are parts of the brain that allows behavioral actions to manifest, without a person consciously knowing. So a subconscious impulse is something that I would think needs be brought into consciousness, integrated with the ego and action performed to remove the undesirable elements not wanted. Because most subconscious impulses tend to be problem. So trying to clear that up before you need to step in the circle. Tricky, right?

So to work around this issue, brings up the notion of working with the goetia. Face value of the book appears to be a manual to control these unwanted (unseen forces) aspects of the lower “demons”. Once that is done the actual value of evoking these energies becomes apparent. Which is why many say get your shit squared away before opening the brass vessel. Yet many need the book to become aware of nature of their current state in ascension. Double edged sword I know.

So I went about it like these are demons, I want to learn how to talk with one because…whatever reasons why people are lead to the occult in the first place. As I burned through sigil after sigil, Belial never came to my house and say next to me on the couch and gave me a lot of money I petitioned for. Instead I fought against the energy evoked and turned out worse than where I started. Classic mistake. Basically, I had to feel these energies and bypass the conscious mind alltogther. This is where the work happens.

So you evoke something, it shows up. Every time, even if you are not aware of it. So now you figure out you need to actually start talking to your subconscious to decipher what went on. That’s where hypnosis and nlp come into effect because your conscious mind is too much in the way. That’s the only way I have been able to get a legit correspondence. I had to hack my way back to subconscious understanding through my ego. Or lack of. That is what allowed these “filters” to bypass the blocks to interact with these intelligences.

So I kept evoking spirits of the solomanic tradition, yo I don’t live like that and find it hard to actually want to keep to that tradition. Solomon knew the info, that’s why he wrote it down. So you can re-trace those steps and become the
Master of your temple. Why would Crowley reproduce that body of work? To reprint old books to keep tradition? I wouldn’t say so. To me he updated it. And I am attempting to do the same, but for building plans for my own temple.

That’s kinda how go about things. These guys wrote blinds into these works to lead people astray and people leave with different concepts
On how to works these occult works. Luckily there is information to work through them and forums such as this to find a way to find answers.

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Well heres the thing about the Lake and the Brass Vessel:

The lake just represents the self, collectivr unconscious and the source of energy. The brass vessel just represents how all single or complex elemental forms (spirits) take form. There is no difference between the Jewish, islamic, western goetia or even The Far Eastern Asian and Russian, because each of their description of demons is nothing more than a Form suited to their cultural and racial consciousness. That means Qlippoth is the same as Djinn amd Goetia with the exception of cultural racial consciousness, which you can perceive as another mask layer.

The Brass vessel is just energy consciousness given a form. So the addage is true you need to work on yourself…however…in this world exist people who are Natural Avatars for said demonic forces. A brass vessel or form first exists in the mind in the form of a concept…like the christian vs luciferian version of a demon…then as an energy, then as a physical vessel. When a Mage spends a great portion of his/her life doing nothing but conjurations their energetic aura gets more dense or intense due to calling around such forces. If such an individual is a Natural Vessel and the work is properly done then thry become an avatar. Such process takes alot of work and high energy though. My point for mentioning it however, is that when you call upon a Demon, said demon will emanate from a Source (gateway) in this case from the Avatar as it is the strongest emanating source reflecting said consciousness of demon.

To use this as a further example…lets talk a little bit about Belial. His powers is he is a social demon, so actually encapsulates many differrent Powers. So before calling upon the “Vessel of Belial” you would have to get your shit togethor within your own vessel…because a Demon can be thought of as a 3rd Party Intermrdiary that exists between a Person and an Avatar Source and/or other person. So you would have to align and harmonize between yourself, the chosen party of influence as well as Avatar source (it being the gateway to Belial), and this is the true Triangle from the perspective of a daemonic.

As far as Brains go…every thought amd action causes differrnt areas of the brain to be usrd. You can think of it as a Braineave pattern. All spirits interact with say memory, visualization centers, ones amygdala, ones reptillian brainstem, etc. Basically a fully interactive spirit will interact with ones full brain like Belial. What the authors may of actually meant is they were categorizing demons as 72 elemental configurations and aligning it with an esoteric concept outside of the self. Because truth be told like I said a demon such as Belial in a more realized form can interact with all areas of the brain and body.

Belial is a social demon, you of course have to master the Relationship to forces outside of yourself as well as within. Darkness is the same as Light; transform the darkness. Ultimately it is like energized consciousness…the stronger the signal the less you need to try to tune your brain mind to recognize said spirit, simply because they come through so strongly. So when you release a demon from a Brass Vessel, you are releasing the energized signal from the self which is colored by your issues…and if you transform that inner aspect then the signal transmitted will go out into the Universe…and all emanations of Belial will respond in kind. So releasing it from the Brass Vessel is actually a Mirror Magick Concept between the Self and ones relation to the world of Vessels.

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Sorry I’m busy right now but I just want to throw this out there check out the book psyco-cybernetics. There are things you are hinting at such as the servo mechanism that helps to explain some of that. But although I must say I’m currently holding many philosophy on this subject and not sure because the spirits sure as hell seem like independent consciousness to me. Although I fully understand each viewpoint on the 72.

So if I just took the “template” of the goetic system and used that as a way to communicate with my different states of being via subconscious communication (I would use a remote viewing protocol to do so). Then, would you say that is a way build the temple according to Solomon?

Because I understand the story as a dude who found out a way to get his shit together on a cosmic scale. So he wrote the book with underlining details as to how the system works.

In my experience with the goetic demons, yes they seem very third party with their own conscious will. However, maybe I’m not aware of everything I should when I work with these energies. I know I’m not the same when I started, that’s for damn sure.

As for psycho-cybernetics, yes I love that book. I didn’t do a path working for the book but I read it when I was learning hypnosis and recognizing brain wave frequencies. There is also a book by Taylor Ellwood about DNA magick, that is worth looking into. With that and Bardons initiation into hermetics is really my ground breaking work that has lead to the most results in magick, and life in general.

Working with this aspect of magick for me has lead me to look at my bodily functions as I do a computer operating system. As above, so below, right? So I would tear down the goetia and customize it for me to be a better me. However if there are simpler ways I’m down for that as well.

I think the end all factor is clairaudience. Although there is the 72 being aspects of our selves there is the matter of when they speak I hear them with the same clairaudience that I hear with disembodied humans and other forms of entities like Zozo that are in fact conscious independent. Also when group summoned entities and everyone in the room hears the same things. Because of these two factors I have been unable to make a clear decision.

I feel that. I get the same vibes when I mess with that stuff. In the grimoire it says that “this particular demon teaches…” Which tells me that these theories and practices of the goetia has more to do with just normal trance states and have a real physical 3rd dimensional quality about them. So yes it’s hard to tell the distinction, if there is one. I just ask because of the nature the book written. Like every occult book, there is more that meets the eye. So if you weren’t taught that certain key phrases actually mean something else. Or you have to figure out a codex, before you can actually understand what you are reading. Which begs the question. So thanks guys I appreciate your input thus far.

Think of a demon teaching as in it giving you a vision to being able to “jump” into an Alternate Reality. Its like telling you to take the steering wheel and how to drive.

As for the 72 they are Doubled to Equal 144. They represent the Soul Extensions of the various decans around the Aeonic Zodiac…basically representing a crystalling structure and the Precession of Consciousness among the Stars and Earth. They are Doubled because one has both the Beta and Alpha traits of the Soul, or rather a Masculine and Feminine aspect to the soul. It is also doubled because a Demon (lower nature) also has an Angelic Higher nature to venture beyond the stars that we see and back. They also represent a Crystalline Dodecahydron.

C.J. Lee. The Goetia hold Secrets of the Craft, The Hidden God. If you view it as a slave race then they’ll reflect that reality back to you, which is the underlying programming of the religions. If you however see them like a Great Dragon that stopped biting its tail and unwound from the Karma if the world…to then reflect a Society that evolved and rode this Dragon to the furthest reaches of the Galaxy to egolve spirit, technology and mastered material reality then more likely you are on the Winning Ship that isnt a sinking Titanic.

Think of a demon teaching as in it giving you a vision to being able to “jump” into an Alternate Reality. Its like telling you to take the steering wheel and how to drive.

As for the 72 they are Doubled to Equal 144. They represent the Soul Extensions of the various decans around the Aeonic Zodiac…basically representing a crystalling structure and the Precession of Consciousness among the Stars and Earth. They are Doubled because one has both the Beta and Alpha traits of the Soul, or rather a Masculine and Feminine aspect to the soul. It is also doubled because a Demon (lower nature) also has an Angelic Higher nature to venture beyond the stars that we see and back. They also represent a Crystalline Dodecahydron.

That, all of that. Where did you find info linking the 72 demons to a dodecahedron?

Some of the info is classified. Some of it came from looking into random sources like Crystalline Knowledge, and some of it shamanick sourcrs relating to things like power spots and other things like Fractals. It all judt camr togethor at some point. It also has RUNIC correlates, but I wont be speaking on that as that is classified and my own project. All around it has to do with Associating Ooccult Models where one splits and Re-Orders ones Soul in a certain way…ones Inner Soul and Sun then reflects ones External World Sun. Its a model that SuperImposes ones magickal will on the World and has Real Physical World Science correlates.

Thats really all I care to say on it. But my advice is call upon demons and ask them, and follow The Whisper of the Runes for it is only the Spirit The One who Tells the Story the whispering hidden gods voice behind the Runes who can light your way.

Interesting. Thank you very much.

That does sound a lot like working with shadow elements of the self. Bring them out when you need them, then tuck them away when you’re done so they don’t sabotage your daily affairs.

I might actually start using “chuck bottles” I can toss into the river to get rid of unwanted magical elements.

Perhaps this will add some context to the discussion

When I first started all I had was hermetics. I didn’t think NLP or any other marketed self help had much to do with what I was looking for. Quite honestly I didn’t know what I was looking for until I actually started trying to perform magic. I was in the mix and I didn’t know it. I would attend time management seminars and weird psychological lectures, that take a page or two from some of these books that are referenced around here.

It wasn’t until I ran into some people where I was taught I-Ching and the foundations of the Silva method. It wasn’t until I read the Andy Pero story and bardons initiation into hermetics, that I connected the dots. This was maybe about a year ago. Now shadow work has actually been useful. Really thanks to the clarity from this site.

This post was about going back through old text seeing if tree was something I missed. Seeing some of the post, tells me there is more to the goetia than what people want to talk about. So it’s possible I can work something out with that.

However, I love that link you posted. There is a lot to learn from doing that. And it gives ideas to how to actually work through a pathworking.

Very interesting topic!!
What do you guys think of the Shem HaMephorash -
72 angels
72 demons (goetia)

That is exactly what I was thinking. Each”demon” is an area in the brain that corresponds to certain functions. Maybe demons are all in the humans head after all. I did use subconscious hypnosis on myself and others against their will. If I didn’t have results I would think is only in my mind and I am delusional. But I did see the results with my own eyes and I was awed. I am not sure if it was the demons I called up helping me or it was just me with my own power.

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Wow! Since my last post here I have gained so much more knowledge, undergone a permanent possession, seen more of the universe than I thought possible. Now I look back on myself and see how ignorant I was.