Gods and Demons in TBOA


#1

In doing some research it seems that the ancient word ‘daimon’ referred to the Divine Force, and that Theos, or ‘God’ (Spirit) referred to a Personification of a Divine Force.

this may be of use to some.

HTH


#2

The grimoires were written at a time when the word ‘demon’ had the meaning it has today. There is a reason that the spirits in these grimoires were classified as demonic, infernal or evil. The meaning of ‘daimon’ in the ancient Greek is practically irrelevant to this, and it never had the meaning ‘god’ to begin with, but even in the ancient world it was understood that there were malevolent and wicked spirits, or simply downright perilous ones, that one wouldn’t ordinarily touch with a ten-foot barge pole. All this jabbering about Christianity changing everything is, frankly, a half-truth. If any person has never encountered the downright evil force and nature in which many of these demons can reveal themselves, then frankly I question whether that person has ever had contact with them in the fullness of their being.

Why don’t you show us, citing sources, where in the ancient world demons like Asmodeus, Belial, Paimon or Zepar were worshiped as ‘gods’ that were subsequently ‘demonised’ by Christianity?


#3

Looking up the word demon in an etymology dictionary yields the following:
demon (n.)
c.1200, from Latin daemon “spirit,” from Greek daimon “deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity” (sometimes including souls of the dead); “one’s genius, lot, or fortune;” from PIE *dai-mon- “divider, provider” (of fortunes or destinies), from root *da- “to divide” (see tide).

From what I understand Daimons in Ancient Greece were considered as intermediary spirits between humans and gods. There are both “good” and “bad” daimons. I find the definition for daimon in many places to be “Replete with knowledge”. I’m not sure where the original source is for that definition.


#4

My source was a classical dictionary citing classical texts. These are also derived from pre-classical sources. The relevance to TBOA is in the relation between ‘Daimon’ and ‘Theos’. In my interpretation ‘Theos’ is simply a phase of the daimon force.
The daimon force – or demonic force – is a divine force.
I did not imply or mean to present a question of theodicy.


#5

[quote=“Poete Maudit, post:2, topic:859”]The grimoires were written at a time when the word ‘demon’ had the meaning it has today. There is a reason that the spirits in these grimoires were classified as demonic, infernal or evil. The meaning of ‘daimon’ in the ancient Greek is practically irrelevant to this, and it never had the meaning ‘god’ to begin with, but even in the ancient world it was understood that there were malevolent and wicked spirits, or simply downright perilous ones, that one wouldn’t ordinarily touch with a ten-foot barge pole. All this jabbering about Christianity changing everything is, frankly, a half-truth. If any person has never encountered the downright evil force and nature in which many of these demons can reveal themselves, then frankly I question whether that person has ever had contact with them in the fullness of their being.

Why don’t you show us, citing sources, where in the ancient world demons like Asmodeus, Belial, Paimon or Zepar were worshiped as ‘gods’ that were subsequently ‘demonised’ by Christianity?[/quote]

I agree with the first part of you post PM, what about the Astaroth/Astarte correspondence that is sited so frequently as an example? Baal was a Canaanite God that was later referenced as a demon. I’m not trying to argue with you just interested in your perspective on these examples.


#6
The meaning of 'daimon' in the ancient Greek is practically irrelevant to this, and it never had the meaning 'god' to begin with
Encyclopedia Britannica:

[…]demon, also spelled daemon, Classical Greek daimon, in Greek religion, a supernatural power. In Homer the term is used almost interchangeably with theos for a god. The distinction there is that theos emphasizes the personality of the god, and demon his activity.[…]

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/149915/demon


#7

Yes, Astaroth and Bael. Now what of the 70 other spirits in the Ars Goetia? What about those in other grimoires? For every one with a tentative linguistic connect ion to a known god I can name 20 without and many of which have no known mention outside of these texts.


#8

Here’s a list of several demons, it mentions many were worshiped as gods and idols in the past.

http://www.sacred-magick.com/800x600/index.html?http://sacred-magick.com/pdf/Demonology.html


#9

My study on the etymology of daimon revealed the root of daio which means to distribute or allot. At it’s root, the word daimon means ‘distributer/alloter (of fortunes)’. This aligns perfectly with what I later happened upon on the subject in the foreword of the Mathers/Crowley edition of The Goetia, The Lesser Key of Solomon the King.

"What is a ‘demon,’ our nearly meaningless English word that derives from what the Greeks called the daimon, and the Romans the Daemon? Crowley frequently relied on the etymology or origins of words to elucidate their real meaning. Plato derived the word from ‘knowing,’ but a modern authority suggests…

the etymology more likely stems from the root daio, “to divide (destinies).” Thus the word could designate one’s “fate” or “destiny,” or the spirit controlling one’s fate, one’s genius."

Basically, any entity that could affect or determine/influence the course of one’s life would be considered daimon, ‘distributer of fortunes’ or ‘alloter/divider or destinies’, in the original sense of the word.

‘Gods’ (Theos, another interesting word in itself, which in the past I traced back to simply mean ‘judge’ or ‘magistrate’, a different meaning than we associate today) are thus daimon. But there are entities which most wouldn’t consider ‘Gods’ according to the modern sense of the word, yet could be considered daimon, such as ancestors.

So if you’re ever in a court room, standing before the judge, remember you’re standing in front of a man who embodies the essence of the meanings of both ‘daimon’ and ‘theos’.

I suggest that perhaps this same disposition should be carried also into demonic evocation; the same respect you would show to a judge to whom you are making an appeal in a court room should be given toward such an entity. You are, by definition, standing before a judge who can have significant influence or effects on your life. What happens when one curses or verbally attacks a judge? To say the least, nothing pleasurable results.