FREEDOM. What's it really worth to you?

This thread is meant to explore the concept in all its many forms, as it seems vaguely important, especially to magicians. Also how it relates to society and the mundane world in general.

Is there such a thing as true freedom? If so Is too much of it a bad thing? What’s your ideal vision of it? And what are you willing to do to have it? How much of it are you willing to give up for another concept like security? Is there an argument for taking most of it away from a population?

Things like that, i’m sure i’m leaving a lot out but i hope you get the general idea. This is not a call for a working or anything pro or con, i’m just curious to know what others think and feel about it.

So all thoughts,opinions, observations and all around smartass comments (within forum rules of course) are welcomed and appreciated, or don’t. That’s the beauty of it all. :grin:


With regards to my theogenesis stuff, I care about the freedom and ascent of people because that will, I believe, make a world I prefer to the theocratic bullshit that is the other route.

It’s mainly a matter of taste, I’d rather be around other living gods than people living spiritually castrated lives as slaves to some hollow destructive desert cult.


Freedom to me doesn’t really come from the government or a god, or anyone outside myself. Sure it’s great to have a government that gives you “rights” but it’s better to just do whatever the fuck you want and be sneaky if it could get you into hot water. I believe that freedom is really the ability to improve yourself in society, to protect yourself, and to learn about whatever it is that you want to. This is why Marxism is so abhorrent to me. This is also why the JCI is so cancerous.


Let me think about it…




Well, let’s knock one aspect of this thread right out of the park; total physical freedom is an illusion. Don’t believe me? Hold your breath with the intention of never breathing again and see what happens after you pass out. Your reptilian brain takes that freedom from you. Anything beyond the physical is more conceptual, however, and totally open to interpretation. Another very cool thread.


Interesting questions.

Talking big, I don’t think we’re ever truly “free”. The universe has its limits. Rules and laws that make it work. We can’t break all the laws and we don’t even know all the rules yet. Infinity is a concept but never proven true. There will always be something finite… as scary as that sounds. (Note that rules can be broken, but laws are unbreakable or else requires punishment for breaking it, in this context)

On a personal level, freedom is good. But I also think that having a few general rules to protect yourself is helpful. Rules and public law were invented for a reason. But too many rules or rules against natural healthy things will make frustrated people. Which is why having a general few logical rules can be a good thing.

Ideally I’d like there to be absolute personal freedom and many things being common sense, but the real world is very complicated and doesn’t care if you’re harmed. It’s better to have a few personal general rules for protection.

That’s my take on it.


A man without freedom is a man blocked from achieving maximal confidence in himself. So long as you aren’t free, you lack true genuine connection with yourself. How could you have a true connection with yourself if you are constantly stopped at the gates that lead to true self discovery. And hence without truly knowing yourself, you lack the full bottle of confidence necessary to do/carry out the things that would allow you to live the full spectrum of experiences this life has to offer. So to answer your question Charles…It’s worth your life itself, because without freedom, what life could one possibly have? This is why slavery is often viewed as one of the most abhorrent things one can impose on another. To me, slavery is a proxy to stealing from someone…But the thing you’re stealing is irreplaceable.


I’d give my life for freedom. Back twenty years ago I got involved in some really deep legal/political events concerning freedom and ruined my life. I learnt that the masses don’t want freedom. They want security. And the masses are getting what they deserve and deserve everything that they get – good and hard. I should have been on the other side because I have no compunction whatsoever in dishing out what the sheeple want.

But as Marvel Whiteside Parsons (known as Jack) said, “Freedom is a two-edged sword”.



I have a dream, since quite some time…

~That i could do anything,
that i could go anywhere,
that i could make people do anything,
that i would have all the time there is, because i’m not going to die anytime.
But; with all that, i would end up walking endlessly,
no sleep -i’m powerfull without end, so there are no rescources to run out,
no food -for the same reason.
No aim(?), well…yes and no, because the street goes its ways… endlessly.

~So i see;

That i would need to keep, a certain pressure -a certain necessity, to not just wander aimlessly through the world. I don’t wanna end like a buddhistic monk or a hamster in its wheel


I’ve found freedom to be a strange topic, like most things to be defined purely in perspective. For instance if you base freedom off of the definition; the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action, then the achievement of freedom in a social environment is nigh impossible. For instance if subject A and subject B are grouped and both seek this freedom, then at some point subject A’s freedom will impede upon subject B’s freedom and vice versa. Therefore man has created government and laws in order to prevent intrusion upon freedoms but in doing so have intruded upon individual freedoms to create a sort of “watered down” general freedom for the group. So when looking at this, the only reasonable level of achievable freedom would be through some sort of dictatorship in which the dictator is the only one to have freedom and even then he is in ways accountable towards his position and therefore not free. So in summary, I believe the only way to achieve true freedom is to break from the chains of society and at the same time achieve separation from the group. Or falling short of that, develop some level of all power in order to force your freedom without outside restraint.

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You said it, and I’m sorry that happened to you. Although lately some of the people who claim there should be certain less freedoms have said, paraphrased, “We shouldn’t be punished for the actions of one man.” No, no you shouldn’t. Do you get what it feels like to lose some freedom now?

I find this thread very synchronized. I took some time last night to catch up on what’s happening with Count Dankula’s case. He’s waiting for final sentencing, basically waiting to see how much freedom he loses and for how long, because of what many have called a free speech situation. Freedoms all around in that one. It’s scary to think of losing my freedom for … anything really. Freedom is precious. People have died for it and are dying for it in parts of the world right now. You THINK you want to be safe, until you realize… wait a minute.


Freedom to me means not worrying about every little thing. Not caring about what other people think of me and not caring about what other people do with their lives when it doesn’t have anything to do with me or someone I love.

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My belief is that all is infinite and by so being infinite all is meaningless because it never ends it only transforms and you have all time and space to exist in varied states. So this is the state of ultimate despair a prison where nothing you do matters as it will fade into infinity but it is also when you realize more of it the state of ultimate freedom where you choose what matters to yourself and do as you wish to evolve and make what you will of it all. So existence is two extremes, ultimate suffering and lack of freedom in its infinity and ultimate joy and freedom in its infinity.
As such I do whatever I want in terms of what I have decided matters most to me and my desires and those I have made matter to me regardless of what wants to get in my way.

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all anyone needs to be free are 3 things.

no master
no forced religion
and a loaded gun

also, enjoy the black man’s perspective…