Fear of punishment

General Discussion
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To whoever happens to read this thread I want to thank you in advance for sharing your advice and experience. Here are my worries and questions:

I come from a strict fundamentalist Judeo/Christian background. I got “saved”, Baptised and attended church regularly. I was told that the devil is real, alive and out there to get you. I was always confused and skeptical of the Church. Recently certain events in my life gave me that final push to question what I was comfortable and familiar with.

I began researching Satanism and the opposing view to everything I have been fed. What I found completely changed my view of the Bible and what I thought was true.

I decided to dig deeper and somehow managed to land on the BALG website. I was intrigued so I purchased the Evocation course. I found it fascinating and exciting. The idea of having power for myself and not having to beg some God who is far away and indifferent really appealed to me.

I am at a point where I have prepared all the necessary tools and equipments for the evocation but I am experiencing serious guilt and doubt about the whole ritual. Due to my Christian programming I am fearful of burning in an eternal lake of fire forever and ever if I was to make an attempt at conjuring a spirit. I am also worried about summoning demons since the common Christian belief is that they are fallen angels and will only deceive and harm you.

Has anyone had a similar experience? How did you overcome the fear and the doubts? Thank you for sharing.

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I think a lot of us here have gone through the very same thing. When I was around 20 (I’m 50 now), I started looking for “truth”, and often found myself coming up against Christian programming. All I can really say is, just keep pushing through it. You have years of dogma and indoctrination that you need to free yourself of. You will find that you automatically measure everything against the yardstick given to you by religion. I can tell you it gets easier, but it does take some time, and some work, to begin opening up to other “truths” (truth is subjective to the individual, that’s why I put " " around it).

My suggestion, if you feel uncomfortable working with beings you were taught to think of as evil, would be to start smaller. Meditation, energy work, or learning and practicing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) shouldn’t bump up against your programming too hard, and will help to expand your notion of what’s really out there. Religion seeks to keep us from our birthright, and it does a damn fine job of it. Keep your eye on the prize, and you’ll win the fight.

FWIW, after all these years, I still find a little hook here and there that I need to rid myself of, so it’s definitely a process.

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I’m also from a Judeo-Christian background and I still do believe that the God of the Hebrews is the one true God who created everything. Some of the fallen angels themselves freely admit that their powers are limited to what Jehovah allows them to do.

As for the “punishment” that comes from consulting with spirits I would imagine it would depend on your level of involvement and what your intentions were. If you were seeking power / self-sovereignty then my own conscience tells me that’s not something God would really approve of. Would you be punished for it? I don’t know. I imagine God would look into your heart and discern why you were seeking such things and then at the end of your life would judge you as the Bible says according to your faith and deeds. There’s mercy and grace and then there’s punishment.

Wanting to be your own god is a great idea but I know that if there’s an almighty God who doesn’t want us to be our own god then there might be a problem.

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Yes I had the same thing happen to me. I decided that if I burned in hell for eternity, the price of knowing the truth would be worth the cost. So for several years I believed I was a damned soul. This gave me such an intense and obsessive focus on learning magick, that I was able to study and practice at a level far beyond what I had ever done in my past. I believed then that I had a ticking clock or limit on my life. I was literally shaking with fear many times as I did various practices. However this also allowed me to forge my willpower to an extent far beyond what I had ever had before. So what appeared to be a drawback I used to develop strengths I could not have otherwise.

I was able to face down the greatest fear of my life and emerge on the other side a different, stronger person. Just another option to consider.

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Uncle Chuckie always helps.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ve06XND7A]karma, the Great Fraud - YouTube

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Chef1964: Thank you for your insight and advice. I think your advice of starting small and simple is best. Good to know that there are others who share the same experience.

Paulden: Thank you for your contribution and opening me up to another possible view of God and the Bible.

NariusV: thank you; that’s a very head strong approach. Ill definitely take it to heart.

Seeker: thank you for the insightful video!

Thank you all for contributing and sharing your ideas and experiences. It helps a lot to know that I’m not alone on this quest. I thought the occult community would be full of dark and selfish individuals but I guess it goes to show how much indoctrination I have been exposed to throughout the years.

I will take your ideas, experiences and learn to grow even further. Many thanks!

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Jehova has little power over demons. He isn’t the creatoreither, so you have nothing to fear from him. According to Archangel Michael at least.

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Thank you Euoi. From my religious programming I was told that if you rebuke spirits in the name of Jesus they would shriek and vapourish. Obviously I’m exaggerating. I’m assuming you have made contact with spirits; something I haven’t done yet as I am still learning. Could you tell me; what happens when you mention Jesus or Jehovah? Do they submit to that name as religion claims? Or do you get a chuckle and confused stare? I’m very excited to conjure a spirit of my own soon. But fear prevents me.

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The names of Jesus and Jehovah only have the power you give them. In Works of Darkness EA talks about evoking Paimon using the names of God and Paimon just laughed at him. It wasn’t until EA got mad and backed the words with the power of his Will that the demon took him seriously. It is your power alone that the spirit responds to. If you call them whining and sniveling and full of fear then they will treat you with contempt. If you call them proudly, standing tall and fierce, as an embodiment of the Eternal, then they will be respectful. And it doesn’t matter what concept of the Eternal you believe in, only that you act with authority and power.

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They themselves say the name of Jesus with no fear or submission. Only the saints acknowledge him as their Lord. Satan etc. Do not. And yes, you can work with both demons and angels, side by side, harmoniously.there is no animosity there.

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When I speak my mind freely about this stuff I can very easily end up being offensive without even meaning to, so I’m trying to rein it in - but apologies in advance if I don’t succeed.

All I would say is, try researching the historical religious beliefs and understandings (including their functional ethics, i.e., those to promote community well-being and protect the weak) that existed throughout the ancient world in Egypt, Greece, Rome, and so on - also, try exploring some Vedantic writings from India, which are brimming with sane, compassionate, and balanced understandings of human nature and the deeper metaphysics of things like the human energy body (chakras) and of the nature and possibilities open to the human soul.

So long as this weirdly pissy god of one small desert tribe is only understood on its own terms by exclusive exposure to the writings of its followers, it’s harder to get a picture of what a truly non-Judeo-Christian spiritual life can look like.

The belief system of a single middle-eastern cult is, in 2015, all that some people know about the divine, about morality, and the destiny of souls, and I think if you can educate yourself on how people have understood those matters outside its sphere of influence, you might be able to place it into a context and begin to feel a sense of liberation from its bizarre and abusive concept of damning to eternal hell anyone who doesn’t revere it.

I was lucky that stuff mostly passed me by (modern England is mainly secular) but even I still picked up some brainwashing just because it’s endemic in the culture, like a background hum. I felt very much better for rooting out every last scrap and I hope that you find a set of understandings - more so than just beliefs, since a belief can exist without evidence or any basis in truth - that liberate you and allow you to flourish to your highest level.

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All i can say is to stand up and support your self because no one else will do it for you.Make your choices and be ready to pay the price,because there’s a price in everything.Being the good guy doesn’t mean that you’ll live in happiness and joy unharmed by anything.Good people are taking the most suffering.The same goes if you choose to be the bad guy.Sooner or later someone more badass than you will come to kick your ass.
Fear appears when you think of the path and disappears when you walking it.Good or bad is just a path at the end.And each one with its own goodies and traps.
Also keep in mind that we don’t have all the time in the world.Why to spend 5 minutes of your precious time thinking about your neighbour who’s torment you for 5 years and not use the 5 minutes to do something about it? This is something i’ve learned the hard way.Use your time to experience and remember to live.There’s no time to loose.
I’ve spend 3 years in depression cursing the bad luck,the humans and all those who were responsible for my situation.Now i’m realizing that it was my choice.I choose to let everyone to fuck me up and i choose to fall down and stay there because i was afraid.I wasn’t loving my self and i was searching to find him on others.I was wondering why god doesn’t seeing what i’m going through and what have i donne to deserve such a faith.
You can imagine how it feels to realize that the only one responsible for my torture was my self.I was allowed it to happen because i was afraid to take action.

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DarkestKnight: Thank you for your insight. I see… word + intent = power. I’ll remember that one many thanks!

Euoi: Thank you for resolving the confusion! Its a relief to know that one can work with both angels and demons without receiving some kind of curse.

Lady Eva: No no. I do not find your post offensive at all. Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Because of my doubts of the god of the bible I took the time to read on ancient cultures, religions, ideas and philosophies. I especially took the time to read through the atrocities and inhumanities contained in the bible which I conveniently ignored and skimmed over before (I forced myself to deal with the truth which helped me immensely in my paradigm shift). I now hold the belief that the god of the bible is a sadistic evil maniac and Satan is the liberator. Thank you for your friendly advice!

Dron: Thank you for the reality check. Yes I alone create my reality and bear the consequences for my actions. Past, present and future. I will do well to remember that.

Thank you all so much for your help and contribution. I am surprised by the support and helpful comments I receive from this community. I’m not scorned and shunned for asking questions unlike the community of the faith. Disagree with that crowd and you’ll find yourself instantly excommunicated for the slightest doubt.

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One of the best things of this site is the great insights of the members!

IMHO, I will second chef1964. Start with meditation and energy work. Research Robert Bruce. Practice the exercises daily. You will be pleasantly surprised where you will be in a few months.

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[quote=“colleen, post:14, topic:4793”]One of the best things of this site is the great insights of the members!

IMHO, I will second chef1964. Start with meditation and energy work. Research Robert Bruce. Practice the exercises daily. You will be pleasantly surprised where you will be in a few months.[/quote]

Thank you!

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You might want to look through the history of the occult and how Jews, Muslims, and Christians have contributed to occult knowledge as well as the history of pagan deities and how they later became the devils of the conquering religion. And even the history of hell is quite interesting from Hel being an underworld goddess to the realm of hell not even being a thing to much later in the development in Christianity.

If that’s not enough E.A. also suggests you can learn soul travel for yourself and see what is out there if you would like. I think all that should bring some comfort.

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I too can relate very much to this topic. I started out years ago a good little Christian girl, attending church and Sunday school, looking forward the annual church picnic and all that. There was a time in my life sometime into my teen years that I truly believed in the bible and a god as described quite literally. I once feared Hell and ‘sin’ and I was sad for those billions of souls who would not be ‘saved.’ Wow,that sounds so odd for me now. Of course there was a time I believed that anything magic, anything occult, metaphysical, anything of the sort was best avoided. I would not have touched it once.

But I am by nature a curious person. Too much so for my own good I suppose some would say. If someone says something is wrong of bad, or harmful, I simply must question why it is so. If someone says their religion is the right one, I simply must know what the alternative ideas are all about.

For the longest time I maintained an idea of a “harm none” kind of path. Far removed from the church and religion, but still something that someone unless they are completely fundamentalist in their religion of choice would think of as pretty tame. However I am still that same kind of curious person I always was and honestly hope I will always be. It may be my own undoing but I would have to guess the great majority of the membership on there is the same and all of you doing quite happily and well. I’ve come to the understanding that curious and the need to know, to see for yourself, is a good thing in life, a quality that is quite sadly bashed out of the masses, for likely a few complicated reasons.

I still struggle a bit with fears caused by religion still. I question the rights and wrongs, the issue of morals, and on and on it goes. I’m not learning anything as complex as evocation yet. (I’m a stumbling beginner, just learning the simpler things, and still not very well.) But someday I will. I now I can learn first, calling on saints, angels, nature spirits, and all things accepted as ‘good’ or ‘positive’, and I probably will go that route. But that curiosity that brought me this far, admittedly still questioning all the while is this is really ‘okay,’ is inevitably going to push me further and further, crossing lines I once thought I would never cross. I must admit, though on some level is does still feel insane and dangerous to me, I want to meet a demon and hear its side of the story. I want to see and learn and experience a kind of power I learned that a human being should never have or know. I want to get to know myself as powerful on my own, without begging and pleading with some being in the sky for help and love and forgiveness.

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[quote=“Dagon, post:16, topic:4793”]You might want to look through the history of the occult and how Jews, Muslims, and Christians have contributed to occult knowledge as well as the history of pagan deities and how they later became the devils of the conquering religion. And even the history of hell is quite interesting from Hel being an underworld goddess to the realm of hell not even being a thing to much later in the development in Christianity.

If that’s not enough E.A. also suggests you can learn soul travel for yourself and see what is out there if you would like. I think all that should bring some comfort.[/quote]

Dagon Thank you for your input!!!

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[quote=“Blazewind Bluebird, post:17, topic:4793”]I too can relate very much to this topic. I started out years ago a good little Christian girl, attending church and Sunday school, looking forward the annual church picnic and all that. There was a time in my life sometime into my teen years that I truly believed in the bible and a god as described quite literally. I once feared Hell and ‘sin’ and I was sad for those billions of souls who would not be ‘saved.’ Wow,that sounds so odd for me now. Of course there was a time I believed that anything magic, anything occult, metaphysical, anything of the sort was best avoided. I would not have touched it once.

But I am by nature a curious person. Too much so for my own good I suppose some would say. If someone says something is wrong of bad, or harmful, I simply must question why it is so. If someone says their religion is the right one, I simply must know what the alternative ideas are all about.

For the longest time I maintained an idea of a “harm none” kind of path. Far removed from the church and religion, but still something that someone unless they are completely fundamentalist in their religion of choice would think of as pretty tame. However I am still that same kind of curious person I always was and honestly hope I will always be. It may be my own undoing but I would have to guess the great majority of the membership on there is the same and all of you doing quite happily and well. I’ve come to the understanding that curious and the need to know, to see for yourself, is a good thing in life, a quality that is quite sadly bashed out of the masses, for likely a few complicated reasons.

I still struggle a bit with fears caused by religion still. I question the rights and wrongs, the issue of morals, and on and on it goes. I’m not learning anything as complex as evocation yet. (I’m a stumbling beginner, just learning the simpler things, and still not very well.) But someday I will. I now I can learn first, calling on saints, angels, nature spirits, and all things accepted as ‘good’ or ‘positive’, and I probably will go that route. But that curiosity that brought me this far, admittedly still questioning all the while is this is really ‘okay,’ is inevitably going to push me further and further, crossing lines I once thought I would never cross. I must admit, though on some level is does still feel insane and dangerous to me, I want to meet a demon and hear its side of the story. I want to see and learn and experience a kind of power I learned that a human being should never have or know. I want to get to know myself as powerful on my own, without begging and pleading with some being in the sky for help and love and forgiveness. [/quote]

Blazewind Bluebird, Thank you for your story and experience. I think I can identify a lot of common ground from your personal experience. Thank you. Its very comforting.

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In a purely Gnostic sense, I was reminded of something from my childhood.

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, nothing above nor below, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God (divine Source) that is in Christ Jesus (as viewed as a symbolic Bridge to divine experience) our Lord.”

Back in the day when I had no exposure to the wide and glorious array of Christian heresies, it was a nightmare attempting to be a fundie Christian. So, I threw out the baby, bathwater, fucking bathtub, as well. No regrets, since it is what it is, but the nice thing about allegories is that the more you learn, the more your perceptions will shift as you gradually see the same shit in a new light or from a new paradigm/angle.

I am continually amazed that I venerate demons, my sister is a Gnostic Christian, my folks are fundagelical, yet we can now get together for bi-weekly family meetings that begin and end with prayer to Jesus Christ and discuss everything from medical issues to child-raising. With trust and friendship. My sis knows I follow the left hand path and she is cool with it and with me. We view “Hell” as a state where you cut yourself off from love (metaphorically refusing to raise your vibration up toward courage, so toward the bridge - which logically exists at a subatomic state, so is available within and without every particle of being and in all experiences/emotions/thoughts).

Fear of hell, I initially conquered with a choice to face it and embrace a life devoid of grace and love per my early conditioning. Ummm. Wow. It was a glorious decision because it demonstrated a profound flaw/lie/falsehood for me. And that allowed me to discover gratitude for my existence, which prompted me toward more concerted efforts to continue it. Oh, and enjoy it, too. I’m discovering a fluffy-bunny-mommy persona I didn’t know existed, and this is after working with demons. No separation from God/Source, and no abandonment.

I move with courage. “Fear is the mind-killer. It is the little death that brings total oblivion. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

And yes, I changed that first line to a positive. Suck it, Frank Herbert.

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