Fate in the Norse mythology and Odin

In Norse mythology, the concept of fate is essentially absolute. It can’t be changed, altered, or escaped for any reason. This isn’t something the gods have set in place. In fact, they are subject to it as well it seems. So, the gods are still subject to natural law, though they have some dominion. And at the time of Ragnarok, they will meet their end. However, Odin is dead set on preventing or prolonging Ragnarok. It seems like he is concerned with changing the unchangeable; altering fate itself. Thus going against nature.

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Zeus from the Greek pantheon is the same. All gods and mortals must be confined by fate. Zeus the god of gods is even forced by the fates. Alot of pagan pantheons have this as a core belief.

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I remember a YouTuber named TotalBiscuit who had died of cancer. This what he said:

“Does that mean I’m done with Youtube and Twitch? Nope, blokes gotta make a living. I have a family to consider and there’s no such thing as “too much” when it comes to what I leave them when I go out kicking and screaming.”

Just because something is fated, that doesn’t mean you stop doing what you’re doing. It’s better to fight to the bitter end than to do nothing.

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I might be wrong here but isn’t Odin collecting prophecies whenever he can all the time? Haha I’ve seen and heard about it in God of War 4 lol

He collects knowledge in general.

God of War 4 deliberately paints them in a bad light lol.

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He isn’t a morally pure and righteous guy or whatever, but he’s not nearly as bad as a full villain.

I mean, the Odin in myth is powerful and knowledgeable but he’s totally a jerk lol.

IRL he’s insanely nice, at least as the aspect he shows to me. Not sure what he’s done but I know he’s capable of “naughtier” deeds than anything that game can show.

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Oh, of course.

But GoW4 goes the extra mile on general douchery and has him be a full blown tyrant.

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Fair enough, fair enough. Sounds cool, I say, hiding my norse rune jewelry and artifacts

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No, and I would distrust any god who would claim to be.

I wouldn’t say that either. To me, Odin is basically amoral, or to the least double sided. He’s…complicated, but the world itself is complicated. Odin is a god of both knowledge and war. Both tend to cross moral boundaries, but can still aim towards justifiable goals.

By our modern yet Abrahamic society’s standards, sure. But, the ancient Norse world was definitely fiercer. So a god who’s okay with employing a bit of brutality or treachery to stay in power would’ve made sense. Even the biblical god was a complete tyrant.

I’m sure he would.

I don’t play that game, but it strikes me that the idea is that the gods are generally bad.

I think that was the general take of Norse society on the concept. But I think I read that Odin sought a way to change fate. Particularly his own and his tribe.

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Right. As I said, it’s better to fight until the bitter end.

Citation needed. :wink:

The event is attested primarily in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In the Prose Edda and in a single poem in the Poetic Edda, the event is referred to as Ragnarök or Ragnarøkkr (Old Norse; meaning Fate of the Gods and Twilight of the Gods, respectively), a usage popularised by 19th-century composer Richard Wagner with the title of the last of his Der Ring des Nibelungen operas, Götterdämmerung (1876), which is “Twilight of the Gods” in German.
From Ragnarök - Wikipedia - that link has references for all assertions made

Poisoning the tree of life for that religion by giving it an end that is intended to mimic weird desert concepts, and then lead neatly to a “better” future that resembles Adam and Eve. :thinking:

Defacing the old king to write over his monuments with your own is a trick as old as time, as is trying to force the meme that a thing is futile, “Surrender Dorothy,” everything is already controlled opposition, everything is already fixed in place for your defeat, “if you can’t beat them, join them” because all is lost.

From Sun Tzu to /pol/ we see that same tactic used, and it’s used because, largely, it works - at least on those unaware that such seeming grim realism is just a tactic to gain control.

Overwrite an oral tradition that’s being eradicated at ground level with a written re-imagining that makes it futile and casts its gods as dead men walking, and you create a diversion in a belief system that will outlast the true tradition.

If this happened in another context, one could be dubious, but all Abrahamic cults are fixated on death, on killing their fellow cultists for thought-crimes, on mass disasters that judge the “good” from the “bad” and just end everything, and on attaining a state of death-in-life, the eternal bliss of their paradises.

And you only need to insert a tiny amount of spin into a story to make it appear completely different, in terms of the mass perception (which is, always, all that counts).

I believe Snorri Sturluson took a cyclical concept akin to that of the Hindus (and Aztecs) and worked it into a bit of (attempted) predictive programming and spin, to make the Norse religion seem weaker compared to the living “eternal” Christ.

They took, and overwrote, the Yule celebrations, marking the first day the Sun is visibly moving south again, and attempted to pass that off as the birth of their “son” deity, they also took Easter, and intentionally built over ancient sacred sites. This is not conspiracy theory.

Reply on a Quora page “What happens after Ragnarök?”:

The already given answers are good, but I’d like to add something. There is an eddic poem, alternate titled either “Korpsgaldr Odhinns” or “Hrafngaldr Odhinns.” This piece talks about some of the events immediately after Ragnarok, in particular speaking of a quest to ascertain the state of what is left of the multiverse, and determine how to proceed with rebuilding. Heimdall, Bragi, and (!) Loki are said to embark on this journey. (Which is contradiction to the commonly held idea that Heimdall and Loki will fight and co-annihilate during the battle.) Upon their return, Loki will speak with the Asynjur (Goddesses), Bragi with the Gods, and Heimdall with the still-barely-conscious recovered head of Odhinn. It ends on a mystery; and the source of the poem (which is one of the most difficult to read and study) is unknown.

Reply by Christopher Nicholson-Sauls, Godhi of Fincastali

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-happens-after-Ragnarök

This is not widely known. :smiley:

The rest of the replies on that link are also worth reading if you have time.

That is the role of a god of magick - defy or supercede probablistic outcomes.

Thor had a goat that came back from the dead every night, the idea those gods are mired in “nature” aka law of cause & effect in a way others may not be is pure propaganda.

I’ll quote something I wrote years ago:

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The most shocking thing about this post is that @Lady_Eva knows about /pol/ im glad im not the only one on here that knows about it.

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There’s one myth that Odin caused Ragnorak due to it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, if I remember right when he heard that Loki’s children will be the cause he took action against them when they were children putting Hel in Hel, Jormungandr in the sea, and Fenrir chained and which case caused Loki to be pissed, Fenrir to retaliate, and Thor and Jormungandr to well fight.

Ragnorak I think was said that a handful of the Gods would die but the sons of Thor would rule the ‘new world’ but they would soon have to face Níðhöggr (I could be wrong there)

albeit I consider it more symbolic.

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I have never heard of that. Nidhoggr, through my understanding, was a passive entity consuming the corpse of the dead. He was neither good or evil.

No Níðhöggr is the jotun serpent that knaws on the bottom of the Tree. He is not good or evil, but those concepts dont exist. His simple intention is to pull the world back into the primordial chaos. He is one of many serpents beneath the tree.

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