Fail!

New Magician Help & Introductions
21

So you learned vampirism with no instruction? You didn’t use any sources to learn your methods from?

There is no such thing as "improper work", there is only that which exists.

I beg to differ, there is plenty of improper work out there, work that neither is effective not reliable and only holds one back from progress as their just wasting time. Check the new age section at the book store and you’ll find your fill.

They're teaching you ONE slice, not the whole pie. People say that the slice is how you finish the pie. They're wrong. To finish the pie, to walk on your path, you need to toss the pie in the baker's face and make one yourself.

The grimoire is the recipe for the pie, try throwing something in the baker’s face you don’t know how to make.

I'm so tired of all of this respect of grimoires. They are not worth the time it takes.

So you’ve used them and found their methods lacking? I’m curious to the basis of your stance.

Take the Goetic system of magick. One does not need to know ANYTHING from that text to succeed. Sure, some demon names may come in handy, but most of the text can be scoffed at.

Care to clarify? If you mean one does not need to know anything about Goetic magick to practice other magick system then your correct, otherwise lol.

You don't protection when summoning, you need AUTHORITY. Do you think a god has a circle when talking to a demon? If one makes even a step in ill will towards that higher entity, it will look at them and say "are you fucking kidding me" and it will end them.

Carve your own path- the past is in the past.

The circle is not protection it is a symbolic display of ones authority and understanding of their place in the system they use.

A grimoire is a system much like a cookbook, they teach you how to make a dish but that doesn’t mean you can’t improvise and make it to your own liking. Some may add different spices or seasonings while someone else may find it inedible.[/quote]

I’ll answer this point by point.

  1. Yes, I learned vampirism with no instruction. I had heard about sanguine vampires, and wondered if I could do that with just my mind. And I did.

  2. If the sorcerer has any experience with magic, which by nature they should, they can turn literally anything into a direction of intent and spellcraft. Ritual is not required for magical working, it only helps.

  3. But what if that pie has something your allergic to in it? What if it has something you need in it? But what if you don’t KNOW your allergic to it, or you DON’T know that there’s something missing? This is why I promote going at it on your own, you don’t know what you’ll find for you until you actually DO it.

  4. Like I’ve said, I don’t find the methods lacking, I find them UNORIGINAL and not really needed for understanding of magic and the ability to use it.

  5. That is the point I was trying to make.

  6. A display of authority is not required by the circle. Any entity that knows humans well would most likely be able to detect you know, or not know, what you’re doing.

  7. That’s pretty much a summary of what I was trying to get at. I, personally, do not like the idea that these cookbooks are held as “absolute” and their systems rigid.

22

Yes - there is a further point, and I think my own investment in this is obvious, that someone somewhere invented pies, someone invents everything, and there’s no shame in pioneering, in making up your own methods and trying them out, provided you’re happy to take the risks - not the least of which is reinventing the wheel, i.e., having to cover established ground by making your own discovery of things you could have learned by rote from books.

It’s also possible the grimoires contain routes so heavily travelled that they have their own thought-forms, energy channels, and so on that can benefit you starting out - but on the other hand, forging your own path means you can create the thought-forms and channels that suit your own needs, and not be limited to other people’s ways of working.

It’s really a matter of taste - I like to try new stuff, design new systems, and that’s because I started trying to do magick long before I realised it was a real thing people did, I got a lot of my ideas from books and movies - but sometimes, it worked, and then when I got older I started to understand why, on the times it didn’t work.

There’s room for both (and a need for both) because someone sat down and wrote those grimoires, there’s always a “first contact” with a particular entity that then becomes part of canonical grimoire tradition.

If we all just operated alone with no established written tradition, we’d all have to keep covering old ground, but on the other hand if people limited themselves exclusively to what’s been written already, we’d be in the same kind of stale death-spin as the major churches, who try to adapt hygiene and moral laws that worked 2000 years ago in the middle east to a globalised and scientific world.

And finally, I don’t know a single person who follows their religion of choice 100%, everyone tweaks a bit here or ignores a bit there, same with magicians - even people who really love a system have made their own shortcuts and edits.

That’s why accepting failure is important - it’s part of growth, and has happened to everyone at some point, no matter how definitive they may sound in their written heritage.

23

If we all just operated alone with no established written tradition, we’d all have to keep covering old ground…[/quote]

The thing with me is, I never cover old ground because I AM chaos, Lady Eva. My foundations are constantly being built upon, not stabilized.

24

[quote=“Sevarn304, post:21, topic:2653”]I’ll answer this point by point.

  1. Yes, I learned vampirism with no instruction. I had heard about sanguine vampires, and wondered if I could do that with just my mind. And I did.[/quote]

How long did it take? Do you not think you would have benefited from someone else’s experience in guiding you to the most efficient methods?

2) If the sorcerer has any experience with magic, which by nature they should, they can turn literally anything into a direction of intent and spellcraft. Ritual is not required for magical working, it only helps.

That is true, but everyone has to build fundamentals first, you don’t become Michael Jordan without learning how to dribble. Ritual teaches one fundamentals, and the word ritual is quite a broad term, opening a sigil, lighting a candle, saying a prayer can all be seen as a rituals in their own rights.

3) But what if that pie has something your allergic to in it? What if it has something you need in it? But what if you don't KNOW your allergic to it, or you DON'T know that there's something missing? This is why I promote going at it on your own, you don't know what you'll find for you until you actually DO it.

Make a soufflé without even knowing the ingredients, the right temperature and the right time to cook it. Sure you can eventually DO it but fuck sake why waste time and energy? Learn how to make it and then use the fundamentals you’ve learned to do it YOUR WAY. A million monkeys with a million typewriters can make Shakespeare but who wants to wait when you can easily pick up a book?

4) Like I've said, I don't find the methods lacking, I find them UNORIGINAL and not really needed for understanding of magic and the ability to use it.

How are they unoriginal? They were someone or some group’s personal collection of rituals and spells it doesn’t get any more original than that, 95% of all magick text you see utilizes the same basics from these unoriginal grimoires so they had to be on to something. I’m not saying you have to use them or read them do as thou will. No offense, but from your posts I find your understanding lacking.

5) That is the point I was trying to make.
  1. A display of authority is not required by the circle. Any entity that knows humans well would most likely be able to detect you know, or not know, what you’re doing.

How would you know? Do you use one? If so why? If not why? If your using a tool it’s in ones best interest to understand it’s signifigance. Thoughtforms are not demons, angels or gods or the dead, there are plenty of tricksters out there who would have a field day with an over eager magician full of their own hubris.

7) That's pretty much a summary of what I was trying to get at. I, personally, do not like the idea that these cookbooks are held as "absolute" and their systems rigid.

I agree, they are worked in many different fashions by many different magicians. Once one learns to “cook” they can spice it up or add cheese or whatever they like to make it better for them and the results they seek.

25

  1. Took about two days for me to get the idea down, and roughly three weeks to actually start feeling from it. What’s efficient for me is probably not efficient for other people, so no.

  2. I learned vamprisim before ritual. Vampirism and it’s teachings are MY fundamentals. Fundamentals can be anything, but they’re generally what you learn first: not a certain style.

  3. But by making that souffle from scratch you have the experience of trial and error, and can teach that to others: IMO, making your own curriculum is more effective than learning it.

  4. But that’s the thing: they WERE someone’s experience. At this point, so long after most of them have been created, they are now unoriginal because they have become the classics, if you will. And no offense taken, everyone has their own opinions.

  5. I used one a few times, and when I stopped using one I noticed quicker results and a more familiar feel to the ritual itself. Since then I’ve abandoned them. And I have my own ways of detecting tricksters, and I am not one to play with.

  6. Glad we agree on something. :slight_smile:

26

On the topic of failure and success:

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While that might not apply to every single bit of work you do, it’s important to not see temporary failure as the end - it was progress of a kind, so long as you do the right analysis afterwards.

For example, I don’t see my years spent doing love & light stuff as completely wasted, because I learned valuable techniques and now have a lot more foundation for my beliefs and philosophies.

27

I just had a huge one.

cursed my cousin’s girlfriend so she get far from our family (she’s a money leecher and she likes another cousin).

I used constant psychich attack for… two days. The first night was strong, intense in rage and hatred. The second one was more technical, cutting psychihc links with visualization and stuff.

They broke up. I was really happy hahaha. But my relatives, specially my aunts that really care about the bitch got sad and stuff. After a full week of my cousin partying and celebrating, and the whore whoring in the whorest beach. They got together again and… they got engage… so big failure.

As I see it. My attack caused major discomfort and strong fights, enough for my cousin to leave her even tho he had to go back with his parents (something that he hates).

Yet, the links that exist in a relationship are bigger, wider or deeper enough regenerate after a while if there is not a definite cut. I think if I could just have keep on attacking, making my desire reach desperation levels to fuel the attacks night, after night, after night… AFTER night… and secure a new love one for my cousin, that would have been better.

Also bitch has a daughter, and my cousin loves her as if were his own, so I didn’t attacked that link (cause I forgot).

Anyway, I see that now they’re like madly in love and stuff… so I just leave it at that unless they cross my path or if I see too much manipulation, I’ll just probably would use a different method, something more focused on my cousin’s well being that anything else and see how it goes.

28

[quote=“EpicGnome, post:27, topic:2653”]I just had a huge one.

cursed my cousin’s girlfriend so she get far from our family (she’s a money leecher and she likes another cousin).

I used constant psychich attack for… two days. The first night was strong, intense in rage and hatred. The second one was more technical, cutting psychihc links with visualization and stuff.

They broke up. I was really happy hahaha. But my relatives, specially my aunts that really care about the bitch got sad and stuff. After a full week of my cousin partying and celebrating, and the whore whoring in the whorest beach. They got together again and… they got engage… so big failure.

As I see it. My attack caused major discomfort and strong fights, enough for my cousin to leave her even tho he had to go back with his parents (something that he hates).

Yet, the links that exist in a relationship are bigger, wider or deeper enough regenerate after a while if there is not a definite cut. I think if I could just have keep on attacking, making my desire reach desperation levels to fuel the attacks night, after night, after night… AFTER night… and secure a new love one for my cousin, that would have been better.

Also bitch has a daughter, and my cousin loves her as if were his own, so I didn’t attacked that link (cause I forgot).

Anyway, I see that now they’re like madly in love and stuff… so I just leave it at that unless they cross my path or if I see too much manipulation, I’ll just probably would use a different method, something more focused on my cousin’s well being that anything else and see how it goes.[/quote]

I know this is going to sound incredibly apathetic, but if you kill the kid and drive the mother to suicide, that’s an easy fix of the problem.

29

[quote=“Sevarn304, post:28, topic:2653”][quote=“EpicGnome, post:27, topic:2653”]I just had a huge one.

cursed my cousin’s girlfriend so she get far from our family (she’s a money leecher and she likes another cousin).

I used constant psychich attack for… two days. The first night was strong, intense in rage and hatred. The second one was more technical, cutting psychihc links with visualization and stuff.

They broke up. I was really happy hahaha. But my relatives, specially my aunts that really care about the bitch got sad and stuff. After a full week of my cousin partying and celebrating, and the whore whoring in the whorest beach. They got together again and… they got engage… so big failure.

As I see it. My attack caused major discomfort and strong fights, enough for my cousin to leave her even tho he had to go back with his parents (something that he hates).

Yet, the links that exist in a relationship are bigger, wider or deeper enough regenerate after a while if there is not a definite cut. I think if I could just have keep on attacking, making my desire reach desperation levels to fuel the attacks night, after night, after night… AFTER night… and secure a new love one for my cousin, that would have been better.

Also bitch has a daughter, and my cousin loves her as if were his own, so I didn’t attacked that link (cause I forgot).

Anyway, I see that now they’re like madly in love and stuff… so I just leave it at that unless they cross my path or if I see too much manipulation, I’ll just probably would use a different method, something more focused on my cousin’s well being that anything else and see how it goes.[/quote]

I know this is going to sound incredibly apathetic, but if you kill the kid and drive the mother to suicide, that’s an easy fix of the problem.[/quote]

That would have negative ripple effects, and a lot of unwanted collateral damage. Anyway, as long as they don’t ruin the business then is all ok.

30

Personally I’d take the path of least resistance, the girlfriend is a whore so help her find another man, work to give your cousin and family clarity so that they see what you do. If they get back together after that then they deserve each other and you can just distance yourself from the situation.

31

wow
such wisdom
very thanks
so TWF