So lets talk about magical failure. I’ll share a story. As some of you know I have been opening Azazel’s sigil and trying to talk to him. Well I decided to do a full blown evocation of Azazel and learn from him. Long of the short it was a total failure. I was a little bit (lot of bit) disappointed.
I mean, what gives?
I turned to my journal to see if I could glean any answers. From what I saw there are five spirits that I have evoked into physical appearance, and more importantly got results from. Leafing through my notes I noticed something. I took at least a month of research before I even attempted evocation of the spirit, with Azazel I did like…four days of sigil work. I found my problem, I let me ego get in the way of my progress. I thought I was a big bad sorcerer, and I ignored the hard ground work. I should have been reading up in Azazel, talking to others who work with him, doing divination, cognitive mapping, immersing myself. Preparatory immersion as EA says, or “Doing your homework” as Andrieh Vitimus says.
That is where I went wrong.
Here is what I want to say. It is ok to fail, that is how you learn. Luckily I keep a journal so I could look back and compare my experiences.
But here is the second lesson I leaned. I had to embrace my failure. I had the option of sweeping it under the rug and just assure myself that I didn’t really fail, I am a super mage…right?
Wrong, and that was a hard pill to swallow. I have had some success with magic but I let it go to my head and I got too big for my britches. If I selected the option to sweep this under the rug and act as if it didn’t happen I would have lost a valuable learning opportunity.
So that is what I wanted to pass on. Failure is not the end, just be honest and learn your lesson.
It might sound a tad strange to some, but when I do have a failure that I can readily detect, I feel strangely happy that I noticed it. And then try to understand what to do about it to ensure future success.
Like you may have problems with Azazel, I seem to have odd issues with Paimon from time to time, mostly in not being able to get its workings to show results beyond communication (which is most unusual to me).
I tried a working with Jezebel to split up a couple. It failed because I tried it out of pure spite and not because they were in my way or hurt me. Apparently, Jezebel doesn’t work for that.
I failed more times than I can count, again and again and again. But the successes I have are so phenomenal that I keep going. Over time I fail less, and have even more amazing successes. I slowly peeling layer by layer all the shit that is holding me back until all that is left is prima materia.
I’ve had so many failures its ridiculous, the most frustrating thing is when you can achieve results for someone else but not for yourself. I’ve learned more about attachment to results in the last two years than I did in the two years prior to that. Before I mostly worked for my own behalf and was learning, working with and for others has really helped me grow.
Nice topic Orismen, I’ve kind of been dealing with similar questions lately.
Personally? I’ve found that my failures are often linked with doubt. Back when I first started out, I had S. Connolly do a reading for me, and she mentioned Eurynomous was wanting to work with me. Keep in mind I was still fairly new to magick at the time, and despite that, I had some of the most intense physical manifestations with Eury, and I think that’s because the knowledge that he wanted to be summoned helped me immerse myself in the ritual more.
On the other hand, sometimes reading about other people’s experiences cause me to struggle more. For instance, when I first started working with Paimon earlier this year, it was much easier to make a connection. Once I started hearing about other people having trouble with him, it was much harder for me to get in contact with him. So yeah, I’ve definitely been feeling the sting of failure lately.
It’s especially hard when I hear things from more experienced magicians. When their experiences don’t match up with mine, I start to wonder if I’m making things up, if I’m just experiencing coincidence, etc. Like, why would they have trouble making contact with Paimon, but it was easy as opening a sigil for me? Was I just imagining things? And that in turn has led to more difficult rituals where I struggle the entire time and wonder if I even accomplished anything. It’s a nasty cycle, and frankly I’m still trying to work through it at the moment [trying to figure out what my “divine” source is. I need a Heckate in my life, damnit :(].
Encouraging post as always though, Orismen. Thanks for sharing.
One of the reasons I think grimoires should be approached as nothing more than heavily edited product is because they NEVER contain accounts of failure, or of rits turning out differently than planned. Apart from a few authors, they’re never an account of someone’s actual spiritual journey, they’re about as credible and rounded as a press-release.
I cannot understand the insane levels of adherance to someone else’s methods and experiences some people go in for, when that author hasn’t been honest enough or willing enough to share the details behind their writings.
I always want to ask, what led the author to this line of work? How did they divine the existence of that entity, that it was right to call on them for such-and-such a purpose, and what was their preparation? Did they screw up at any point, or find things turned out differently than they hoped?
Great topic Orismen. More people should be upfront about their failures just as much as they are about their successes. I applaud your ability to take a hard look in the mirror, see where you went wrong and fixed it. Good work.
[quote=“Lady Eva, post:8, topic:2653”]One of the reasons I think grimoires should be approached as nothing more than heavily edited product is because they NEVER contain accounts of failure, or of rits turning out differently than planned. Apart from a few authors, they’re never an account of someone’s actual spiritual journey, they’re about as credible and rounded as a press-release.
I cannot understand the insane levels of adherance to someone else’s methods and experiences some people go in for, when that author hasn’t been honest enough or willing enough to share the details behind their writings.
I always want to ask, what led the author to this line of work? How did they divine the existence of that entity, that it was right to call on them for such-and-such a purpose, and what was their preparation? Did they screw up at any point, or find things turned out differently than they hoped?[/quote]
They’re not supposed to contain any accounts of failure. And if we’re being honest, they dont contain any accounts of success either. They are instruction books, not get rich quick infomercials with testimonials. A grimoire is no different than a mundane text book. Did your high school math book have stories of people who couldn’t do calculus and trigonometry? Probably not. It had instructions on how to do the work properly and be done. No stories of people who failed or succeeded. Same concept with grimoires. To be honest, adding in case histories is a relatively new thing in most schools of magic.
Grimoires are for the ones who aren’t original enough to carve their own path out. Sure, you may say they’re resources, but to what end?
There is no such thing as “improper work”, there is only that which exists.
They’re teaching you ONE slice, not the whole pie. People say that the slice is how you finish the pie. They’re wrong. To finish the pie, to walk on your path, you need to toss the pie in the baker’s face and make one yourself.
I’m so tired of all of this respect of grimoires. They are not worth the time it takes.
Take the Goetic system of magick. One does not need to know ANYTHING from that text to succeed. Sure, some demon names may come in handy, but most of the text can be scoffed at.
You don’t protection when summoning, you need AUTHORITY. Do you think a god has a circle when talking to a demon? If one makes even a step in ill will towards that higher entity, it will look at them and say “are you fucking kidding me” and it will end them.
[quote=“Sevarn304, post:10, topic:2653”]Grimoires are for the ones who aren’t original enough to carve their own path out. Sure, you may say they’re resources, but to what end?
There is no such thing as “improper work”, there is only that which exists.
They’re teaching you ONE slice, not the whole pie. People say that the slice is how you finish the pie. They’re wrong. To finish the pie, to walk on your path, you need to toss the pie in the baker’s face and make one yourself.
I’m so tired of all of this respect of grimoires. They are not worth the time it takes.
Take the Goetic system of magick. One does not need to know ANYTHING from that text to succeed. Sure, some demon names may come in handy, but most of the text can be scoffed at.
You don’t protection when summoning, you need AUTHORITY. Do you think a god has a circle when talking to a demon? If one makes even a step in ill will towards that higher entity, it will look at them and say “are you fucking kidding me” and it will end them.
Carve your own path- the past is in the past.[/quote]
At the same time you shouldn’t knock the ones who have chosen the Goetic system as their path. Respect all paths, no one is any better than the other.
Not many systems that are publicly known today are original. Most take bits and pieces from here and there and formed something similar or wholly different. I’m just saying, while you may not respect the grimoires, you should respect the choices of those who have chosen to undertake that work.
I made this thread because I think a lot of newer magicians see all the success and get disheartened when they try for a while with no results.
I think we have seen many reasons why this might be the case. For me it was not doing the prep work. Euoi found that the spirit he was working with doesn’t do, or doesn’t like to do, a type of work. The Eye found his system (congrats btw). TWF learned about his attachment to workings. Icarus got down and dirty and found the motivation to press on. Lady E, Baphomet, and Severan bring up good points about the GT, demanding but effective.
And Blacklamb found the eternal truth that we all need Hecate in our lives. Lol, I AM biased.
I am glad that we all took a good looks at ourselves. Failure is not the end, just a good learning experience.
[quote=“Orismen, post:1, topic:2653”]I mean, what gives?
I turned to my journal to see if I could glean any answers. From what I saw there are five spirits that I have evoked into physical appearance, and more importantly got results from. Leafing through my notes I noticed something. I took at least a month of research before I even attempted evocation of the spirit, with Azazel I did like…four days of sigil work. I found my problem, I let me ego get in the way of my progress. I thought I was a big bad sorcerer, and I ignored the hard ground work. I should have been reading up in Azazel, talking to others who work with him, doing divination, cognitive mapping, immersing myself. Preparatory immersion as EA says, or “Doing your homework” as Andrieh Vitimus says.
That is where I went wrong.[/quote]
I always say the reliability of an archetype is determined by how robust and well defined it is. You need to put the time in to build these thoughtforms before they can be used reliably.
Alternatively, you could have used something you have already personally defined, the chaos approach.
Me, I like to mix both approaches. Apply ritual behavior to alter my existing paradigms into well tuned machines.
So you learned vampirism with no instruction? You didn’t use any sources to learn your methods from?
There is no such thing as "improper work", there is only that which exists.
I beg to differ, there is plenty of improper work out there, work that neither is effective not reliable and only holds one back from progress as their just wasting time. Check the new age section at the book store and you’ll find your fill.
They're teaching you ONE slice, not the whole pie. People say that the slice is how you finish the pie. They're wrong. To finish the pie, to walk on your path, you need to toss the pie in the baker's face and make one yourself.
The grimoire is the recipe for the pie, try throwing something in the baker’s face you don’t know how to make.
I'm so tired of all of this respect of grimoires. They are not worth the time it takes.
So you’ve used them and found their methods lacking? I’m curious to the basis of your stance.
Take the Goetic system of magick. One does not need to know ANYTHING from that text to succeed. Sure, some demon names may come in handy, but most of the text can be scoffed at.
Care to clarify? If you mean one does not need to know anything about Goetic magick to practice other magick system then your correct, otherwise lol.
You don't protection when summoning, you need AUTHORITY. Do you think a god has a circle when talking to a demon? If one makes even a step in ill will towards that higher entity, it will look at them and say "are you fucking kidding me" and it will end them.
Carve your own path- the past is in the past.
The circle is not protection it is a symbolic display of ones authority and understanding of their place in the system they use.
A grimoire is a system much like a cookbook, they teach you how to make a dish but that doesn’t mean you can’t improvise and make it to your own liking. Some may add different spices or seasonings while someone else may find it inedible.
I know, my issue isn’t with that but that people new to magick often hold themselves against these completed products and feel they’re lacking, and develop a sense of themselves as failures rather than as people working towards a result.
They lean rather more towards the testimonial side (“Do X and Y WILL happen”) than towards full and rounded accounts of the obstacles and choices the author faced to get to that result - and by result, I mean, successful evocation, rather than material world things.
In school the textbooks don’t have the background, but any good teacher, and any motivational teacher in adult life, will suggest you read the biographies of successful people to see that they worked very hard to get where they are, because that’s an important part of the equation.
Edison famously worked for many years perfecting the electric lightbulb, and for a student who’s trying to create something new now, that’s as important to remember as the fact lightbulbs were invented and this is the chemical and physical reason why they work.
So I’m not saying “Oh, grimoires are rubbish, let’s throw them all away” but I AM saying that they don’t contain a complete account of someone’s spiritual journey, so people on their own journey need to remember this when their evocations and other work doesn’t measure up to grimoiric levels of manifestation and results right away.
I know, my issue isn’t with that but that people new to magick often hold themselves against these completed products and feel they’re lacking, and develop a sense of themselves as failures rather than as people working towards a result.
They lean rather more towards the testimonial side (“Do X and Y WILL happen”) than towards full and rounded accounts of the obstacles and choices the author faced to get to that result - and by result, I mean, successful evocation, rather than material world things.
In school the textbooks don’t have the background, but any good teacher, and any motivational teacher in adult life, will suggest you read the biographies of successful people to see that they worked very hard to get where they are, because that’s an important part of the equation.
Edison famously worked for many years perfecting the electric lightbulb, and for a student who’s trying to create something new now, that’s as important to remember as the fact lightbulbs were invented and this is the chemical and physical reason why they work.
So I’m not saying “Oh, grimoires are rubbish, let’s throw them all away” but I AM saying that they don’t contain a complete account of someone’s spiritual journey, so people on their own journey need to remember this when their evocations and other work doesn’t measure up to grimoiric levels of manifestation and results right away.[/quote]