I recently read a modern occult author saying that even if entities hear you and a ritual technically “works,” unconscious blocks can still prevent the manifestation from happening. He also talked about repeating life patterns and cycles, which honestly matches my experience.But this is where I get confused. If deep internal blocks can override magick anyway, then what is the actual role of magick? I got into it partly to break those cycles of failure and create real change in my life, not to endlessly dig through more and more psychological issues while nothing external happens.I’ve always viewed magick as something that can gradually shift the inner state on its own, which then changes external reality as a result. I’m still fairly new to the occult, and I can’t evoke entities to directly ask what my blocks are or how to remove them.So I’m curious what more experienced practitioners think,Do you believe inner work is necessary for successful magick, or can magick itself transform the unconscious?
It depends on which kind of magick you do.
Doing a basic petition spell, ask for a saint, Jesus, La Santa Muerte, the spirit of the river…. To help you for something is a request. You don’t need visualisation or energy building (even thought it can only make your work better)
If you need to call for a specific spirit more “niche” like a goetic demon, you need to bring the demon to you. That will ask for extra abilities to feel it and being able to communicate with it.
If you do pure energy magick, like building an energy ball/cone of power, and direct it to your goal it asks extra techniques. Inner works help to feel that energy.
No i think you misunderstood my question by inner work what I mean is the process of searching for a limiting belief and removing it.the author of that book says the limiting belief can even block a result from a powerful spirit.my question if that’s the case what is the purpose of doing magick.things manifest normaly if you don’t have any belief against it.
Not necessarily, but working with certain spirits naturally leads you to inner breakthroughs.
I think a lot of people fall into the category of thinking magick should be a fix all.
Magick should never be used as a bandaid. Magick should be used as a last resort. Why? Because you’re tugging at the strings of creation, and if you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re going to create more problems than you resolve.
My mother has a method: any problem someone brings to her, or she has herself, her first inclination is to use diplomacy. After that, cunning and guile to work it out. After that, aggressive politics. After that, she may use simple reactive things: if x does y, then x receives z. Classic conditioning. Only as a last resort does she intervene with spirits or the like. Not saying One shouldn’t, obviously, but one should entail any major work and what it comes with. Escalate the situation appropriately. If a spirit can observe your growth through your own devices, the more likely they are to reward you with boons, that’s my experience. What’s a magus worth if he has to rely on borrowed power to effect his will?
Magick should be something refined, detailed, a true craft, requiring hours of self work and validation, experience and patience. To achieve mastery in any field, you’ve got to study, take risks, and be patient: learn from doing. If you’re looking for a band aid on all your problems without putting in the work, you’re going to be sorely disappointed and likely in dire straits to boot.
Yeah you are right but there are also people who are really struggling in life who were given stupid advice like work hard and take action which in my case never worked.i just don’t know why I am not getting results(not magical result) in life there is no explanation for this other than luck.i have been in situation like this for over 7 years.things never got aligned or fell into place.so what I am saying is that magick for me is not like a bandaid or quick fix it is a last resort.
Then as a last resort, I’d prepare my bargain.
what are you willing to sell? What of that has worth to other magi, daemons, spirits? Why would I bargain with you for something I can bargain for myself? Give me license: What’s the point in peddling something of common value to others who have ready access to what your offering?
Goetic forms have little interest in that which is easily accessible: just because it brings you to the threshold, doesn’t mean a goetic form wont recognize what you demonstrate as common. You yourself may sell your though-form for thousands of dollars, but if you’re one among 100k petitioners, how rare really is your offering? It’s supply and demand baby, and demons are venture capitalist. I’d recognize that going forward.
Here is how you figure out your blocks. If your goal is to get a promotion at work, imagine that you already have it. Then take note of how you feel. If you get anxious, depressed, get a knot in your get or something else negative then you’re blocked up. That’s your nervous system telling you it doesn’t feel safe.
Release the block by regularly imagining that you already have whatever it is and simultaneously doing slow rythmic diaphragm breathing. That will calm and regulate your nervous system and condition it to see it as safe
I don’t think I fully agree that magick should be a last resort. I don’t see it as tugging at the strings of creation. More like learning to streamline reality and it’s established patterns in your favor. I do think magick is not a quick fix. Not for the external things you want and not for fixing inner issues. Magick is a skill and can be a tool, not a solution. Like any skill, it takes a lot of work and dedication to get better at it.
Think of it this way. Apart from a meriad of other reasons to work on yourself, magick is mainly a mental activity. Eventually you’d want a strong and healthy mind to be able to progress. Just like you’ll want a strong and healthy body to engage and progress at physical activities.
Few of the results of exploring inner space and working on the issues you encounter is that your intuition becomes more reliable, the less you fall into unhealthy responses and patterns and as you learn about healing your inner space, the more you learn about shaping the outer space/ external reality (as within, so without).
It’s not only the fact that inner blocks can have a negative result on the results. If you ignore any issues you have, magick (like many other things) becomes a distraction and a trap feeding into obsession and other unhealthy responses.
Introspection and a curious tendency to discover why you keep doing certain things or why you always find yourself in certain situations helps uncovering issues. Recreating those in a sort of mindfulness meditation helps in becoming aware of what happens mentally and physically when the issues express themselves in mundane life. Invoking appropriate spirits in trance states and exploring those issues further helps in gaining more insight in causes and possible solutions. Layered rituals and/ or pathworkings can help resolving and eliminating those issues. I find destructive spirits such as Abaddon and spirits associated with death like Samael and The Wild Hunt helpful in destroying/ killing parts of yourself that no longer serve a purpose after you’ve worked on the issues. These are powerful aids, but there’s always work to be done in mundane life as well. Depending on the severity of the issues, some therapy next to occult work could also be adviced.
Great advice, I am already doing that for quite sometime and am also seeing results, but results are slow maybe because I myself have too much resistance in the subconscious.i also belief that everything is about the mind or subconsious.
I belief magick is also a powerfull way to impress the subconsious mind.that is one of the reason I am here
How do you know what a demon values? If I create a digital painting, a sculpture, or dedicate a future creative project to a spirit, that has value to me. Maybe it has value to the spirit, maybe it doesn’t. But how can either of us know for sure?
From what I’ve read, there is no consensus on how spirits operate. Some people get better results with angels than demons and attribute that to personal affinity. Others have the opposite experience. There are also different ways of understanding demons altogether—some see them as real external entities, others as aspects of consciousness, and some as egregores.Even among people who believe demons are real spirits, there are different opinions. Gordon Winterfield, for example, argues that offerings aren’t necessary. Others see offerings as gratitude rather than payment. Some even believe spirits seek interaction with humans because it benefits them in some way.That’s why I don’t think the “supply and demand” model is the only way to look at it. It’s one interpretation among many.
To be honest, your reply came across as if most people have little worth offering and that it’s very difficult to interest a spirit. Maybe that’s your view, but I think presenting it that way can be discouraging and may even influence people’s expectations before they’ve had their own experiences.At the end of the day, if you ask 100 practitioners what demons want, you’ll probably get 100 different answers. I’d rather keep an open mind and let my own experiences guide me.
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First, let’s get our pronouns right…
What an individual SPIRIT wants is of course specific to the spirit. Some have millennia worth of attributes, desires, specifications associated with them: Penemue can be traced literally (as in literature) to almost the second millennium before Christ. Obviously their needs are well recorded. Personally, I prefer the unknown. I look for a spirit who values what I value, for ease of operation: why would I seek companionship with a being whose needs, wants, and values contradict mine own? Obviously, there is much to be said in acceeding to the duality of any partnership. Adverse vs. inverse. The Magus operates in opposition to the spirit, when the Spirit demands one thing the Magus offers the Other. I find it conducive to operate with those in accordance. Have you ever operated machinery set up for someone whose Left Handed, though you’re right? The principle applies.
Second, this relationship is often dependent upon the gens of a specific spirit: the first question I ask myself is, DO I as Magus, have the Gens right? Is it demonic, is it fae, is it ancestral? Are we dealing with an elemental, an egregore, a Sending? Is it a shade? Does it haunt, actively? On what premise? Is the soul in question ‘damned’ (unable to progress)?
Thirdly: I’m no authority. I am a student like everyone else. I have cultivated relationships with spirits since I could produce semen. Each of these entities (luxuriously) have often been mapped by my predecessors. I know what X wants, because my grandmother masturbated with it 70 years ago; my great aunt offered it black kittens every new moon for 30 years; my mother gave wine and oil and bread monthly for 40 years; my aunt gave it menstrual blood for decades, mixed in red wine. But when I encounter Y, I ask myself all of the aforementioned. Classification is the seed of human ingenuity, and I recommend an in depth classification and research before ambiguously applying societal norms to spirits who may or not conform to preconceived notions of spirituality. My recommendation (as a trained anthropologist) is to not be ethnocentric. Spirit culture is not HUMAN culture, and if that spirit was once human, one needs to operate in the confines of their defined predecessant culture (the culture in which the shade operated as a full member before death).
What is Goetia but the Anthropology of Spirits? THAT is a query I value fully. YOU ARE RIGHT! Be specific in your probing, be smart! ‘If you seek a slave, a slave-made you’ll be.’ THAT’ is my recommendation.
And for good measure I’d say: how much experience do you, personally, have with humanity? Do you see multitudes that have ‘a lot’ to offer? I don’t. If I were an immortal, interdimensional being capable of affecting change on multiple planes of existence…. Would I seek out the mundane? Why settle for Campbell’s Tomato when Warhol himself is three cells down? I’m not saying don’t be mundane ( the averageness of magi arguably leads to the Art’s longevity), but if you were a crow, wouldn’t you pick up the shiny thing first? You wanna get picked up, take a cue from the trannies at the corner and put some sequins in your wig, that’s all I’m saying. Be mundane on your own time, not while wooing the Lords of Hell.
I just want you to shine, while also recognizing that 99% of the other 9 Billion don’t know how to to and wouldn’t go through the effort of it if someone took them to the path and left them at the street sign.