i’d assume, if they have a goal they are trying to reach, that they would have no problem doing seemingly immoral or hypocritical things to further their progress. considering they really are very old and have spent countless years being, i would also argue that they rarely stray from the path they’ve set their sights on.
do you think demons (or any other entity for that matter) do not have a goal? i guess in part it would depend on what you think demons are, and to what degree they are capable of self-determination.
fwiw i do think demons have a moral compass, but expecting to understand it without the greater context of all the knowledge they possess might be silly
Yea sure, I would agree with that. I guess the part Im having trouble with (what a lot of people are saying, not necessarily you) is that morality and arriving at it is a rather complex endeavor. I believe it was also a necessity for civilization to develop.
But now we’re throwing all of that under the bus when we’re talking about arguably even more developed creatures…it just doesnt seem logical to me.
Im not debating the fact that we might perceive something theyre doing as immoral and from their higher perspective it makes sense and we just cant see it; fair enough. But the “demons be demons, they do evil things” just seems a bit too simplistic for my taste.
And remember we are not just talking about a slight disagreement in what is and what isnt moral here. This thread literally started with the premise of them supporting paedophilia, which is arguably one of the harshest moral blunders one can make.
i admit i’m not too familiar with what demonic civilization is like outside of the basics of there being dukes, princes, etc. would the civilization of entities that are far beyond us develop in the same ways ours has?
i fear that unfortunately they do not care about what most humans would consider to be objectively evil. compare it to how humans treat animals, many humans love them but the fraction that is abusive or neglectful tends to inflict the most suffering on the animal kingdom as a whole even if a lot of people treat animals the best they can. this extends to how animals are used for labour, too, and in these cases the good treatment of a worker animal is often to boost its productivity, not out of kindness or genuine care. i think a lot of entities see humans as either so stupid or so insignificant that they can’t bring themselves to care about what we do as long as we can be beneficial in a way that aligns with their incomprehensible ethics and/or doesn’t sully their image; similarly to how an employee at a slaughterhouse wouldn’t care about what his cow has been doing in the fields before it died as long as it can get some quality beef from it at the end of its life.
maybe i am being too pessimistic in assuming that most demonic moral compasses wouldn’t line up very well with ours. i think it’s very case-by-case, like it would be for any grand population of conscious beings, though i wouldn’t get my hopes up.
You can still serve yourself as priority and have friends dude. You dont have to be a complete asshole to serve yourself. I never said COMPLETELY. Why do people always think i mean being an asshole when i say serve themselves?
Demons arent assholes, they know respect, but that doesnt change the fact that they are self-benefitting. Their main intention is to serve themselves.That doesnt mean they cant be respectful and kind, it just means they are motivated when theres something in it for them. Which is a grounded approach to life.
For example, like hell am i going to go out of my way to join a team of people making content for free because theres NOTHING in it for me. I dont derive enjoyment from putting content out for free, i want reward. The gain for myself, whether monetary or not, is my MAIN intention. That doesnt make me an asshole, that makes me grounded and sensible. Demons are like that, even if they serve others the main intention is get a reward or something for themselves.
Some people and beings are motivated by selfless service, but most people and beings are not. Most people and beings also do not care to protect those that arent their own. Like what i said about me not being motivated to hurt a pedo that hurts another kid, theres nothing in it for me and i dont wanna waste my time bothering about other peoples business when it doesnt concern me. To do anything else is senseless.
NO !!!!!!!!! i don’t believe so . demons exist outside of time and space , and have no physical bodies , limitations or needs , so i don’t see why would they need or want anything in return .
They still need energy, and energy empowers them. They are evolving still as much as we are. Despite them being higher beings, they need to evolve. Offerings and the likes give them energy to evolve themselves with.
Demons arent fluffy plushies, they are ancient dark beings who can tear u apart with a glance. They dont care for anyone outside of their own. If a demon doesnt know YOU personally, they aint gonna give a toss what happens to you.
I mean, at the end of the day we are both gonna believe what we want to believe. I just personally find it hard to envision a world where beings greater than me, stand below me in such an important facet as ethics.
Maybe youre too pessimistic and Im too optimistic
You know I will agree with that and even go as far and say that EVERY motivation is born out of selfishness. Even saving someone at your own expense can arguably be selfish as you’d rather make the sacrifice to save the other person than to live with the shame and regret of not having saved them (extreme example, I know).
However I find that there is a lot of ground to cover between “demons are motivated by selfishness” and “demons will do dishonest work if it benefits them”. Acting in accord with your moral compass can also be self-elevating even if it makes you miss out on a more materialistic reward you would receive if you acted differently.
Demons will do dishonest work, have u read the ars goetia? Glasya Labolas will literally kill someone for you and hes KNOWN to kill someone even if the method puts innocent people in with your target if not otherwise stated. Clauneck, a demon known for wealth making in the Grimorium Verum, is KNOWN to help people make wealth doing illegal stuff even if thats human trafficking.
oh … but i also don’t believe we should powerscale them . i also thought offerings were just a way to connect with them .
if a demon doesn’t know YOU personally , they ain’t gonna give a toss what happens to you
ohhh ! so if that was true , and we invoked and … started worshipping them , they will still care about us ( ・∇・) ? i hope king paimon does already for me …
I would say all demons are more than willing to do things dishonestly. I mean even the demons that get women to fall in love with someone will do so against the womans will, else they wouldnt need to make the woman fall in love.
@tornribbon1402 If you want to be taken seriously as a magician and not just some anime fangirl who is role-playing, you need to accept that demons are not fluffy pink bunnies that only want cuddles. They are powerful beings that can, and will, hurt you if they choose to. There is a reason why protection and blasting rods are a thing in ceremonial magick.
I know someone who Kng Paimon tried to destroy. The animosity was so great between he and the magician that Lucifer had to negotiate a truce between them. Paimon is not to be taken lightly.
Survival wasn’t the goal. The magician went all in, no holding back. They were perfectly willing to accept their own destruction. Had Lucifer not intervened, the magician would have eventually lost, but the damage to the spiritual planes would have caused seismic ripples throughout reality. Lucifer basically forced a non-aggression pact upon them.
